Epilouge

[Wolfchild]

Well, I honestly did not want to enter this new discussion of the Epilogue, simply because I have nothing more to add myself that I have not written already somewhere. However, one thing surprises me. Not a single post in this thread makes any reference to the fact that the Epilogue is entitled "Let the Old Dreams Die" (perhaps I overlooked some post in which it is mentioned, in which case I apologise). Now, does anybody seriously believe that Lindqvist would choose such a title if he did not intend it to have a serious and significant relation to what happens in the Epilogue? Should not the title be the starting point of any speculation rather than just being ignored? Isn't it true that only thing we know for certain about the Epilogue is its title?

It seems to me that if you really want to speculate about JAL's Epilogue rather than invent your own, then the starting point has to be to try to find an interpretation for the title. The title should be as significant for the Epilogue as "Let the Right One In" is for the main story. If you can correctly guess the implications of the title, then you will probably have guessed, at least roughly, the outline of the Epilogue.

Quite frankly, I think that the only significance of the title is that it is the next line from the same song that gave the novel and the film their title:

Let the right one in
Let the old dreams die
Let the wrong ones go
They cannot
They cannot
They cannot do what you want them to do

You need a title for the next bit of this story? Well, what is the next line of the song? Natch.

However much John Ajvide is a fan of Morrissey, I doubt very much that he would let Morrissey's lyrics dictate the plot of an epilogue to a story which is largely biographical.

[gattoparde59]

John frequently talks about the thin and fragile membrane (my translation) separating reality and the supernatural.

I am really curious about that phrase. What is the term that John uses for the "thin and fragile membrane"?

This is not comparable. In the novel he (just) had another shock on the road towards being with Eli.

You are right, I should amend that by saying, Oskar has a pretty fair idea about what is involved in being a vampire.

[PeteMork]

However much John Ajvide is a fan of Morrissey, I doubt very much that he would let Morrissey's lyrics dictate the plot of an epilogue to a story which is largely biographical.

At the same time, considering how perfect the first line of the song is in conveying the meaning of the original story, I suspect that JAL would be equally careful in selecting the title to the Epilogue and would not have chosen the second line of the song without carefully considering its meaning to him and its meaning in the context of the continuing story line. That being said, I still don't think it helps us much. We can't get inside JAL's head on this one.

[drakkar]

I am really curious about that phrase. What is the term that John uses for the "thin and fragile membrane"?

The phrase was used in an interview in Ordfront, his publisher. This is the quote:

Mina berättelser vadar inte i blod och äckel. Det finns där, naturligtvis, men framför allt handlar de om människor som ställs inför det Andra. Vår verklighet är skör och bräcklig, inte sant? Vi går omkring i vackert väder, gör våra läxor och planerar vilket virke vi ska använda till nya altanen. Och samtidigt...samtidigt...är det bara en tunn hinna som skiljer oss från fallet, monstren, ett mörker som slår lock för ögonen. Det Andra. Vad händer när det sipprar in? Vad gör vi?

My translation:
He talks about when people meets det andra "The Other", another reality. Our reality is fragile, and is easily broken. In our daily business as usual, its only a thin membrane (or line) separating us from the downfall, the monster, the darkness shutting our eyes. The Other. What happens when it sips into our reality? What will we do?

(in LTROI they worked a lot with this theme, shown multiple times in Oskar's hand on the window, on the wall, Eli and Oskar's hands on the glass door).

[gattoparde59]

Thank you Drakkar!

My online Swedish translator gives me "thin film" for tunn hinna. This gives you an interesting "translation" also for the visual metaphors in the the film. The first time Oskar places his hand on the window he is gazing at his own reflection, which is on the other side of the window. Oskar is the "other"? This actually appears in the novel when Oskar looks in the mirror.

Even in translation, en tunn hinna som skiljer oss från fallet, monstren, ett mörker som slår lock för ögonen. "a thin membrane (or line) separating us from the downfall, the monster, the darkness shutting our eyes." is still a pretty "murky" phrase.

[drakkar]

The first time Oskar places his hand on the window he is gazing at his own reflection, which is on the other side of the window. Oskar is the "other"? This actually appears in the novel when Oskar looks in the mirror.

Actually this is where they start talking about this "thin film" in the Swedish commentary track - and Eli arrives shortly after (in the film) - so I would certainly buy that.

Even in translation, en tunn hinna som skiljer oss från fallet, monstren, ett mörker som slår lock för ögonen. "a thin membrane (or line) separating us from the downfall, the monster, the darkness shutting our eyes." is still a pretty "murky" phrase.

That was my translation, which means it could be done better, but yes, it is dark also in Swedish.

During my search for the "phrase" I listened to the end of a Swedish radio program with John, where he talks about how he views himself as a writer. He clearly defines himself as a horror writer, but he has great affection for aesthetics and melodrama in his novels. Those who stand faithfully waiting, shall have their reward in the end. Then there of course is a risk of becoming pathetic, and this he avoids by an accurate and realistic portrayal of the social environment in his stories.

Translating into (my suggestion): He finds it necessary to portray Blackeberg in a realistic and harsh way so he can let Oskar have his Eli without LTROI becoming pathetic.

[Lacenaire]

You need a title for the next bit of this story? Well, what is the next line of the song? Natch.

You really believe that this is how writers choose their titles?

However much John Ajvide is a fan of Morrissey, I doubt very much that he would let Morrissey's lyrics dictate the plot of an epilogue to a story which is largely biographical.

Who said anything about dictating? All I wrote is that the title will be reflected in the story, so given that you have no other information about the story but the title, the natural and rational thing to do is to start by finding an interpretation for the title. It will probably not work, but it is certainly a more sensible approach than just making up your own stories which do not relate to the title at all. (Of course you should also use the fact that the story is autobiographical. This is a bit of additional information that we have. This and the title.)

Later edit. Actually I was wrong. There is one more piece of information: that the Epilogue will be only 10 pages long. Which is not really enough space for any substantial new story. Things will happen fast.

[gattoparde59]

That was my translation, which means it could be done better, but yes, it is dark also in Swedish.

I wasn't faulting your translation. I was just wondering what the author was getting at. I reckon it might be the Oskar we see at the beginning of the novel, losing his grip on reality. Eli snaps him out of this- but then later Oskar has to deal with the darkness within Eli.

During my search for the "phrase" I listened to the end of a Swedish radio program with John, where he talks about how he views himself as a writer. He clearly defines himself as a horror writer, but he has great affection for aesthetics and melodrama in his novels. Those who stand faithfully waiting, shall have their reward in the end. Then there of course is a risk of becoming pathetic, and this he avoids by an accurate and realistic portrayal of the social environment in his stories.

Translating into (my suggestion): He finds it necessary to portray Blackeberg in a realistic and harsh way so he can let Oskar have his Eli without LTROI becoming pathetic.

Maybe "pathetic" is not quite the right word? He seems to be trying to avoid being overly sentimental, or maudlin, a kind of emotional balancing act. I think he also does this with the character of Eli. Eli is very enigmatic, and has a difficult time expressing her/his emotions. An example being the answer to "where did your willy go?" This was a painful subject for Eli and he makes a joke out of it.

[drakkar]

I wasn't faulting your translation. I was just wondering what the author was getting at. I reckon it might be the Oskar we see at the beginning of the novel, losing his grip on reality. Eli snaps him out of this- but then later Oskar has to deal with the darkness within Eli.

Yes, actually. And he confirms this in the english dvd commentary, when Oskar stands at the window in the very beginning of the film. John speaks about the startig point of the film, Oskar's feelings: "Being alone, waiting for something to happen, anything, for anyone to come through the darkness, maybe not to save you, but to have something to happen; to change things." Plain enough. This is of course about the film, but I feel it's valid for the book as well.

Maybe "pathetic" is not quite the right word? He seems to be trying to avoid being overly sentimental, or maudlin, a kind of emotional balancing act. I think he also does this with the character of Eli. Eli is very enigmatic, and has a difficult time expressing her/his emotions. An example being the answer to "where did your willy go?" This was a painful subject for Eli and he makes a joke out of it.

You are of course right. I'll go for "overly sentimental".
And he is of course right, his books has are very emotional (to me, at least), so they need this balance. But he is taking the risk of heightening the literary level of his work, so people like me don't recognise it as horror.

Second run:

During my search for the "phrase" I listened to the end of a Swedish radio program with John, where he talks about how he views himself as a writer. He clearly defines himself as a horror writer, but he has great affection for aesthetics and melodrama in his novels. Those who stand faithfully waiting, shall have their reward in the end. Then there of course is a risk of becoming overly sentimental, and this he avoids by an accurate and realistic portrayal of the social environment in his stories.

[Wolfchild]

You need a title for the next bit of this story? Well, what is the next line of the song? Natch.

You really believe that this is how writers choose their titles?

Don't be silly, and don't over generalize. I said nothing about all writers. We are talking specifically about a few pages of epilogue to a 400+ page novel.

However much John Ajvide is a fan of Morrissey, I doubt very much that he would let Morrissey's lyrics dictate the plot of an epilogue to a story which is largely biographical.

Who said anything about dictating? All I wrote is that the title will be reflected in the story, so given that you have no other information about the story but the title, the natural and rational thing to do is to start by finding an interpretation for the title. It will probably not work, but it is certainly a more sensible approach than just making up your own stories which do not relate to the title at all.

The function of a title is to tell something about the story. In this case, employing Occam's Razor would seem to lead to the conclusion that the title alludes simply to it being an epilogue, rather than to some wilder speculation about it's plot.