Is Eli a Person?

[sauvin]

I do not think Eli can be judged morally at all. However you look at it she is "sui generis"; there is nothing in our experience that fits her situation. In fact, in the case of Eli of the film, we do not really know any clear reason why she must kill, or what would really happen if she did not, or whether she can kill herself or whatever.

We know of course that she is a vampire and those of us who know a lot about vampires (or have read the novel) can assume can assume deduce things but none of that is obligatory for a viewer.

Eli does say that she kills because she must, but we don't actually know any reason why that is so. This is one of many reasons why it is possible for me to think of her as a purely allegorical character and allegorical characters in general are not subject to moral judgement.

In the book we know a lot more about Eli but she still is a "sui generis" case, which does not correspond to any experience we have. In my opinion the character is actually incoherent - she is a child and not a child, she has no knowledge but has memory (I wonder how people square this fact that she supposedly "learn nothing" with the idea that she is like a veteran of a brutal war?) and so on. Judgement of any kind needs a combination of general principles and actual experience - in this case there are no principles that can be applied (because of the internal incoherence of the character) and certainly no experience or analogy can be brought to bear because nothing like that has ever existed.

Lacenaire, my fight with you is done. I didn't properly understand this was the position you were taking, and it agrees substantially with my own. You have my apologies.

[Ash]

So...... is Eli a person or not?

Person comes from the Latin persona (mask).
And "mask" from the Latin masca (ghost).
That's good enough for me to define what Eli is, in fact, any of us who claim to be human.
Eli's is no more (or less) definable that what we are. So I'd let her in.

[Ash]

I'd let these folks in too.
Who are we to judge another's membership? I won't.

[Ash]

And for those who want to make the choice of who does or doesn't.. A reminder.

[gattoparde59]

sauvin wrote:

Does likening Eli to a soldier smack of iconoclasm?

I think sauvin has put his finger on one of the problems in this thread. For me, war and the military has always been fascinating. What fascinates me is the contradiction of it all. War brings out the best, and the worst, in human beings. The worst being the human potential for hatred, violence and general destruction. The problem isn't soldiers killing against there will, it is soldiers killing because as Eli puts it so eloquently, "you want to kill."

In this scene from Breaker Morant, Morant explains exactly what is meant by rule .303, .303 being the caliber of ammunition used by the British army:

To consider the reality of Eli's condition we need to look at the emotional reality of Eli's circumstance, as well as any moral equations. When Eli says "I kill because I have to," she is also saying "not because I want to." To kill goes against her nature, this is not the person she wants to be. A soldier in a war might consent to "do his duty" even though he/she does not really want to be a killer, and would not harm anyone under normal circumstance. Eli is also a child. Children are "patients" to use the word from the original post, they don't have control over their destiny. Children don't choose their parents. Children don't get to choose the people that are closest to them. Children don't get to choose the people that they love. A child of an alcoholic, or an mentally ill parent may find themselves both loving and hating their parents, and having to deal with those emotions.

[sauvin]

You know, there are seventeen pages (as of this post) of all sorts of twisty long-winded rhetoric, some of it frankly unbelievable, some of it simple not navigable for want of hip waders and gas masks, but the forum as a united whole hasn't come out with a definitive consensus that Eli is or is not a person.

[JToede]

Yes, Eli is a person.

[sauvin]

Yes, Eli is a person.

How can you answer with such quick certainty when you know it can't be known under which sign of the Zodiac she was born - or which "birth" to consider in this light?

[Jameron]

Yes, Eli is a person.

How can you answer with such quick certainty when you know it can't be known under which sign of the Zodiac she was born - or which "birth" to consider in this light?

She is a person ... with an infection.

.

[EEA]

No, Eli isn't a real person.