Telepathy

For discussion of John Ajvide Lindqvist's novel Låt den rätte komma in
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drakkar
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Re: Telepathy

Post by drakkar » Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:11 pm

So so... I think it will do for a while. 220 years?
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TΛPETRVE
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Re: Telepathy

Post by TΛPETRVE » Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:22 pm

That would be Theocentrism :D .
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drakkar
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Re: Telepathy

Post by drakkar » Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:36 pm

OK, but still :lol:
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N.R. Gasan
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Re: Telepathy

Post by N.R. Gasan » Tue Mar 09, 2010 3:33 am

gattoparde59 wrote:Admittedly this is very ambiguous, but that is really the nature of Eli isn’t it? We are given all kinds of clues about the mysterious Eli, could these passages I mentioned be clues pointing towards the eventual telepathic communication that comes with Eli’s kiss?"
Very insightful, gatto. I had never considered earlier hints of Eli's ability to share thoughts. Great catch. :)

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Re: Telepathy

Post by a_contemplative_life » Tue Mar 09, 2010 4:06 am

gattoparde59 wrote:I feel that there are earlier hints that there is a telepathic link between Eli and Oskar. In a scene from the first chapter Oskar senses an evil presence in his room.
The apartment was quiet. Nothing happened. The concrete walls sealed themselves around him. He sat on his bed with his hands on his knees, his stomach heavy with sweets.
As if something was about to happen. Now.
He held his breath, listening. A sticky fear crept over him. Something was approaching. A colorless gas seeping out of the walls, threatening to take form, to swallow him up. He sat stiffly, holding his breath, and listened. Waited.
We are told in this scene that it is “starting to get dark.” Eli’s apartment is right on the other side of the wall. Does Oskar sense the presence of Eli? Eli we know is hungry. Does Eli influence Oskar’s game with the kitchen knife that he begins to play almost immediately after this scene?
The knife would have the last word and the earth would drink his blood.
Oskar has read those words in a book and liked them.
The Earth Shall Drink His Blood.
Yes, Oskar’s fantasies are fueled by loneliness, fear and rage, but are they also being steered in a particular direction by the presence of Eli?
I had always viewed this as just an indication of Oskar's weirdness, a weirdness that one might say, sort of set him up for Eli. I hadn't thought that somehow Eli had already singled him out for some sort of telepathic projection. Anything is possible, I suppose, but I'm skeptical.

gattoparde59 wrote:Another possible case of telepathy occurs at the end of the very first meeting between Eli and Oskar. Oskar asks Eli why she does not feel the cold.
The girl frowned, wrinkling up her face, and for a moment she looked much much older than she was. Like an old woman about to cry.
After Eli leaves we get a description of Oskar’s state of mind.
He put his hands in his pockets and felt sad. Thought about Bobby and how he had looked in the makeshift coffin Dad had made for him. Thought about the cross he had made in wood shop that had snapped in two as they hammered it into the ground.
It is possible to say that Oskar’s sad thoughts are prompted by the putrid odor given off by Eli, but that odor leads Oskar to ask, not one but two questions that provoke an emotional response in Eli. Are Eli and Oskar at this first meeting already emotionally in sync with each other? Oskar mourns his lost dog Bobby. Eli also, I think, is mourning something she lost long ago.
I do think the two of them were in some sort of emotional "synch" almost from the start, but I don't know that Eli was trying to make Oskar think anything in particular in the scene. I think Oskar just has an unusual ability to "free associate" what he is experiencing at the moment with thoughts or past memories that relate in some way to what is going on in front of him.

gattoparde59 wrote:There is another suggestion of this same emotional connection between Eli and Oskar in the scene on the tire swings. At the end Oskar’s happiness with his new friend is practically transcendant, “he was light as a feather and could almost fly.” Oskar beams in the darkness as Eli applauds him. This is Oskar’s happiness, but isn’t this also a happiness he shares in with Eli? As Håkan observes of Eli, “It was attractive naturally. This joy, this . . . life.”
Agreed, but telepathy was not required in this instance. Oskar was just really happy that Eli accepted him and had made a genuine offer to help with the bullies.
gattoparde59 wrote:Even better is Oskar’ dream he has just before Eli appears at his window. To be fair, it should be added that Oskar had gone to sleep after praying that the missing Eli would return to him. “Please, dear God, Let her come back.” :( Then Oskar is described drifting off to sleep. “He lay there for a long time conjuring up the images he wanted to see, then they started to take on a life of their own as he slid into sleep.” Then Oskar has this dream:
Eli and he were sitting in a swing that was going higher and higher until it loosened from its chains and flew up into the sky. They were holding on tight to the edge of the swing, their knees pressed against each other, and Eli whispered,
“Oskar, Oskar. . .”
Oskar’s dreams have miraculously become a reality. Eli is really at his window asking to be let in. Eli we should remember has just been flying naked through the night, trailing gasoline fumes from her most recent misadventure. Eli is also going to be with Oskar. Oskar’s dream seems to suggest this, steered perhaps by the telepathic influence of Eli.
Dreaming of swinging with Eli would seem to relate more to the happiness Oskar had experienced previously on the swings (as just discussed). Oskar is heavily infatuated with Eli at this point; he doesn't need any telepathic influence from Eli to be dreaming about her.

gattoparde59 wrote:I think I will stop here with these suggestions. You could go on and think about the other scenes with Oskar and Eli and whether some hint of telepathy is present in those as well. Admittedly this is very ambiguous, but that is really the nature of Eli isn’t it? We are given all kinds of clues about the mysterious Eli, could these passages I mentioned be clues pointing towards the eventual telepathic communication that comes with Eli’s kiss?
I think you're right; there's a lot of room for interpretation. I think the scene where Eli manages to get the hospital receptionist to divulge the location of Hakan clearly shows us that she is able to project something and influence how other people think. She walks in and the woman immediately thinks, I have to give her something. She doesn't know what, but the urge to do it is there and I think it came from Eli, somehow. Or when Eli brushed the arm of the woman with cancer, and she suddenly deflates like an opened coffee bag. Very weird.
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drakkar
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Re: Telepathy

Post by drakkar » Tue Mar 09, 2010 8:15 am

a_contemplative_life wrote:I had always viewed this as just an indication of Oskar's weirdness, a weirdness that one might say, sort of set him up for Eli. I hadn't thought that somehow Eli had already singled him out for some sort of telepathic projection. Anything is possible, I suppose, but I'm skeptical.

gattoparde59 wrote:
Another possible case of telepathy occurs at the end of the very first meeting between Eli and Oskar. Oskar asks Eli why she does not feel the cold.
The girl frowned, wrinkling up her face, and for a moment she looked much much older than she was. Like an old woman about to cry.
After Eli leaves we get a description of Oskar’s state of mind.
He put his hands in his pockets and felt sad. Thought about Bobby and how he had looked in the makeshift coffin Dad had made for him. Thought about the cross he had made in wood shop that had snapped in two as they hammered it into the ground.
It is possible to say that Oskar’s sad thoughts are prompted by the putrid odor given off by Eli, but that odor leads Oskar to ask, not one but two questions that provoke an emotional response in Eli. Are Eli and Oskar at this first meeting already emotionally in sync with each other? Oskar mourns his lost dog Bobby. Eli also, I think, is mourning something she lost long ago.
I do think the two of them were in some sort of emotional "synch" almost from the start, but I don't know that Eli was trying to make Oskar think anything in particular in the scene. I think Oskar just has an unusual ability to "free associate" what he is experiencing at the moment with thoughts or past memories that relate in some way to what is going on in front of him.
I've played with the tought of Eli and Oskar being twin souls. I cannot find any direct hints towards this in the book, and Eli's soul has been busy in the same body for quite a long time, but then there are all these hints making me have this inkling...
For the heart life is simple. It beats as long as it can.
- Karl Ove Knausgård

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Re: Telepathy

Post by gattoparde59 » Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:46 am

a_contemplative_life wrote:I had always viewed this as just an indication of Oskar's weirdness, a weirdness that one might say, sort of set him up for Eli. I hadn't thought that somehow Eli had already singled him out for some sort of telepathic projection. Anything is possible, I suppose, but I'm skeptical.
Just to clarify, I don't think this would be deliberate mind control on the part of Eli. Eli "broadcasts" and it just so happens that Oskar can pick up on it. Does Eli even know Oskar is there at the very beginning? Interesting that Oskar thinks he can kill at a distance. Eli is also trying to kill people at a distance as well.

I'll break open the story and tell you what is there. Then, like the others that have fallen out onto the sand, I will finish with it, and the wind will take it away.

Nisa

DMt.

Re: Telepathy

Post by DMt. » Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:39 pm

I think at this stage it's just that they can already feel each other, dimly, and already know that each is going to be a signal person in the other's experience.

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Re: Telepathy

Post by gattoparde59 » Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:18 pm

@Drakkar, Twin souls?

Sorry, I don't understand you on this point. And. . . . telepathy is not working either. ;)

I'll break open the story and tell you what is there. Then, like the others that have fallen out onto the sand, I will finish with it, and the wind will take it away.

Nisa

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drakkar
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Re: Telepathy

Post by drakkar » Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:48 am

gattoparde59 wrote:@Drakkar, Twin souls?

Sorry, I don't understand you on this point. And. . . . telepathy is not working either. ;)
I'm not fully educated about this ;) , but since the story is loaded with supernatural elements, and also has lots of (both open and less open) hints towards spirituality and religion, it just struck me.

Twin souls are two souls of the same origin, and in some respects they are regarded as an unit. Rumors say that when/if you meet your twin soul, you are instantly in tune, like you were never separated. Both undertand on the wery deepest levels the other's thoughts and actions. Rumours also says that if your twin soul is approaching, you will feel it. Please correct me if I got something wrong. And - twin souls must not be confused with soul mates, having a much weaker connection.
For the heart life is simple. It beats as long as it can.
- Karl Ove Knausgård

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