Frustrated by the way the person who made this video sees Eli, and the things he does, related to feeding, etc.

[Jessy7217]

It's bothersome how he makes all of Eli's actions and whatnot, when drinking someone's blood, sexual. They equate everything with sex, as it seems to me. But, Eli is still basically a 12 year old. Emotionally, anyway. They also get his gender totally wrong. Seeing something how it isn't.

Please watch it the whole way through, then come back with your thoughts about it.
I've included these screencaps, to give you an idea of what it's about, before watching it. Going by what's in the first screencap, I had thought I was going to really like this video. My opinion changed, real quick.





https://youtu.be/_G4i7zi8yNA

[cmfireflies]

I didn't like it either. It seemed like the reviewer had a bunch of preconceived notions of what vampirism stands for and tried to make it fit the movie even when it's wrong. Like there was nothing pleasurable about Eli's bite and the whole vampirism = sex thing is wrong when the characters are 12.

A lot of reviewers are like this though. One said that Eli was a sexual predator because vampirism = sex. Another said that they loved the movie until they found out that Eli was male because it made the story about an older guy seducing a young boy (why the story was acceptable if Eli were an older woman was never explained).

There are better analysis about sex and gender in LtROI. My favorite is this one:

[sauvin]

I watched the movie long before reading the novel. Movie Eli does not have a boy's body shape. First impressions are often the most enduring, and for me, Eli is a girl. Kindly note this isn't a "correction", it's just an observation: this forum is littered with posts conferring Eli with either gender.

I don't think movie reviewers always read the novels. That's valid; novels almost invariably lose something when translated to the Big Screen, and it's appropriate that a movie be asked to stand on its own merits.

I also don't think movie reviewers often watch a movie they're reviewing more than once, and this is the greater sin. Even simple-minded slasher movies can be laden with all kinds of different comment, symbolism and such, and it's hard to believe that anybody could be sharp enough to catch all of it in one go.

LTROI is neither simple-minded nor a slasher, and boy, howdy, is it ever loaded with subtleties!

Thirdly is mostly in the form of a question: who the [!@#$@%] is Mr. Drakanator? Any jack with a camera and the ability to speak can post a YouTube video, and when it comes to movie reviews, most probably shouldn't.

He's gotten at least one point right, for most of us: Eli and Oskar manage to transcend sexuality. They don't have much of a choice if they want to stay together, but possibly not for the reason this "reviewer" suggests: if Eli had been twelve for a "very long time", there's a very good chance she came from a time when kids apparently grew up a lot more slowly than what is the case today, and at twelve years old, maybe her biological clock hadn't even started ticking when she lost whatever she'd lost with that scar. That loss and her apparent youth probably mean that she didn't have the hormones needed to add fire to a starry moonlit night, it means Eli probably wasn't attracted by Oskar's manly physique and it almost certainly means Eli's attacks on Jocke and Virginia had virtually zero sexual dimension for her. She was hungry, she hunted, and she subdued her prey in the quickest and most efficient possible way she knew.

As an aside, I turned twelve years old myself twelve years before the year this movie is set in, and I remember what that was like. My shrink says that enduring a stressed childhood can make a kid grow up faster than other kids, but if that's true, then most of the kids I knew then were themselves also enduring stressed childhoods, because for us, the boy-meets-girl saga reserved very few mysteries. These pressures probably existed for (movie) Oskar, and they were just as hot and confusing for him as they were for the gang I knew at that age, and they pretty much precluded any kind of clear reasoning where the present or the future might be concerned. Short form: he was just taking it as it comes, one step at a time, because he couldn't figure any other way - he could put a foot forward, but he could never be sure about where it might land. I think the position Drakanator imputed to Oskar is pretty damned advanced (and adult) for a reasonably average tween.

This review succeeds for me in a brilliantly sour way because it illustrates most graphically just how much a mirror LTROI is on the human condition: Drakanator said what he saw, and in so doing, said what he is: an adult whose thinking is permeated with sexual implication on the basis of little more than an adult's excess of steroids.

What irritates me to no end is that bargeloads of people will hear this guy talking, get the impression he's got a college education and therefore speaks with something resembling authority. They'll buy into what he's pitching, and if they go on to watch the movie for themselves, their Drakanator-imbued preconceptions will deny them the story's truth.

Edit: Oh, Drakanotor? As for the petite mort Eli experiences when she dines? She also apparently only eats two or three times a week. YOU go for three days with absolutely nothing to eat, and then have your friends record you while YOU gobble down a big, hot, steaming, juicy HAMBURGER!

[Jessy7217]

I didn't like it either. It seemed like the reviewer had a bunch of preconceived notions of what vampirism stands for and tried to make it fit the movie even when it's wrong. Like there was nothing pleasurable about Eli's bite and the whole vampirism = sex thing is wrong when the characters are 12.

A lot of reviewers are like this though. One said that Eli was a sexual predator because vampirism = sex. Another said that they loved the movie until they found out that Eli was male because it made the story about an older guy seducing a young boy (why the story was acceptable if Eli were an older woman was never explained).

There are better analysis about sex and gender in LtROI. My favorite is this one:

He must have had preconceived notions.

There sure wasn't. I was thinking about this post, some days ago, and the fact of it being the neck blood is drank from. Yes, it's an erogenous zine, but it's also where the carotid artery is, and much more blood would come out of the carotid artery, vs out of a vein.

Yes. Shoot, neither of them were even thinking of sex. And for Eli, it's completely impossible, anyway. Also,

They are? I'm glad this is the first one I've run across.

Ooh. That's a very good point. If it were an older human man, or human woman, it would be wrong in both cases. But, since Eli never progressed past the age of 12, it's not an issue, regardless of gender.

Thank you for that link. I'll have to check it out.

[Jessy7217]

I watched the movie long before reading the novel. Movie Eli does not have a boy's body shape. First impressions are often the most enduring, and for me, Eli is a girl. Kindly note this isn't a "correction", it's just an observation: this forum is littered with posts conferring Eli with either gender.

I don't think movie reviewers always read the novels. That's valid; novels almost invariably lose something when translated to the Big Screen, and it's appropriate that a movie be asked to stand on its own merits.

I also don't think movie reviewers often watch a movie they're reviewing more than once, and this is the greater sin. Even simple-minded slasher movies can be laden with all kinds of different comment, symbolism and such, and it's hard to believe that anybody could be sharp enough to catch all of it in one go.

LTROI is neither simple-minded nor a slasher, and boy, howdy, is it ever loaded with subtleties!

Thirdly is mostly in the form of a question: who the [!@#$@%] is Mr. Drakanator? Any jack with a camera and the ability to speak can post a YouTube video, and when it comes to movie reviews, most probably shouldn't.

He's gotten at least one point right, for most of us: Eli and Oskar manage to transcend sexuality. They don't have much of a choice if they want to stay together, but possibly not for the reason this "reviewer" suggests: if Eli had been twelve for a "very long time", there's a very good chance she came from a time when kids apparently grew up a lot more slowly than what is the case today, and at twelve years old, maybe her biological clock hadn't even started ticking when she lost whatever she'd lost with that scar. That loss and her apparent youth probably mean that she didn't have the hormones needed to add fire to a starry moonlit night, it means Eli probably wasn't attracted by Oskar's manly physique and it almost certainly means Eli's attacks on Jocke and Virginia had virtually zero sexual dimension for her. She was hungry, she hunted, and she subdued her prey in the quickest and most efficient possible way she knew.

As an aside, I turned twelve years old myself twelve years before the year this movie is set in, and I remember what that was like. My shrink says that enduring a stressed childhood can make a kid grow up faster than other kids, but if that's true, then most of the kids I knew then were themselves also enduring stressed childhoods, because for us, the boy-meets-girl saga reserved very few mysteries. These pressures probably existed for (movie) Oskar, and they were just as hot and confusing for him as they were for the gang I knew at that age, and they pretty much precluded any kind of clear reasoning where the present or the future might be concerned. Short form: he was just taking it as it comes, one step at a time, because he couldn't figure any other way - he could put a foot forward, but he could never be sure about where it might land. I think the position Drakanator imputed to Oskar is pretty damned advanced (and adult) for a reasonably average tween.

This review succeeds for me in a brilliantly sour way because it illustrates most graphically just how much a mirror LTROI is on the human condition: Drakanator said what he saw, and in so doing, said what he is: an adult whose thinking is permeated with sexual implication on the basis of little more than an adult's excess of steroids.

What irritates me to no end is that bargeloads of people will hear this guy talking, get the impression he's got a college education and therefore speaks with something resembling authority. They'll buy into what he's pitching, and if they go on to watch the movie for themselves, their Drakanator-imbued preconceptions will deny them the story's truth.

Edit: Oh, Drakanotor? As for the petite mort Eli experiences when she dines? She also apparently only eats two or three times a week. YOU go for three days with absolutely nothing to eat, and then have your friends record you while YOU gobble down a big, hot, steaming, juicy HAMBURGER!

I only think Eli can be thought of as a girl, because of the way he dresses. I read a theory about that, that says it's a way to appear weak to others, making it easier, when it comes to finding someone to feed from.
I have seen some refer to him as a girl, and some refer to him as a boy. Even in the movie though, it's shown that he is not a girl. No female genitalia, just a scar. Also, Eli twice mentions not being a girl, in the movie.

I don't feel like reading the book is necessary, to know that there is nothing sexual in Eli feeding on people. It's just nourishment. Plus, he's 12.

I watch movies I really like, multiple times, and always notice something I didn't, before.

I have no clue who he is. Never heard of him, til the video. Exactly.

Yes. I agree with that. It does go beyond sexuality. That is one reason why I got so upset. It at first seemed like he really got it, but turns out, he didn't.

I don't think even now, 12 year olds have biological clocks. Possibly an interest in sex. Though, I didn't, when I was 12.

I read two different years, 81 and 82. I would have been either 8/9 or 9/10, the year the movie was set in.

I wouldn't know about mysteries, reserved or otherwise. It was so long ago, anyway.

Ah, I see what you mean about how it succeeds. I would think more an excess of hormones, though.

I really hope that doesn't happen..

Edit: Oh, Drakanotor? As for the petite mort Eli experiences when she dines? She also apparently only eats two or three times a week. YOU go for three days with absolutely nothing to eat, and then have your friends record you while YOU gobble down a big, hot, steaming, juicy HAMBURGER!

This is hilarious to me, because it's so true. I know when I've not eaten a certain food for a really long time, I enjoy it a heck of a lot more.

[sauvin]

I only think Eli can be thought of as a girl, because of the way he dresses. I read a theory about that, that says it's a way to appear weak to others, making it easier, when it comes to finding someone to feed from.
I have seen some refer to him as a girl, and some refer to him as a boy. Even in the movie though, it's shown that he is not a girl. No female genitalia, just a scar. Also, Eli twice mentions not being a girl, in the movie.

"Oskar, I'm no girl", she tells him. She implies it once behind the kiosk, and flatly states it in his room.

... but what is she really saying? In the novel, while the two are sharing a blanket, she says something like "I'm not a girl, and not a boy. Not young, not old. I'm nothing".

Biological clock or no, she's been around more than long enough to know that most boys like girls, even if they don't know why. Oskar is a boy, so it's likely he _will_ start liking girls if he hasn't already started noticing them. Born a girl or not, having a girl's plumbing or not, simple fact is that you're right in one very real sense: she can't be an ordinary girlfriend workin' on her night moves in the back seat of a '67 Chevy when Oskar is a junior in high school.

So, is she saying she's not a girl because there's no Oskar Jr. in his future with her, or is she concerned that he might flee screaming with terror when he finds out that the red stuff she puts in her Thermos isn't tomato soup?

Plus, you know, even if she were to manage to hide the reality of her diet and associated strengths and vulnerabilities from him for a few years, sooner or later, Oskar is going to notice he's fifteen, or sixteen, or seventeen.... and she's still only twelve. The mere fact of her apparent immortality is bound to be a bit upsetting. I think most guys would have a problem with knowing that a potential impending wedding would necessarily mean being married to a child.

Unlike Oskar, who's barely been around for more than a decade, Eli's thinking here can have a few forward-looking facets. She's probably been there and done at least some of that at least once before.

Here's the real artistic crime against humanity: she might not be saying that purely on practical grounds. If she's not young, and not old, if she's not a boy and not a girl - if, in other words, she really is nothing - and you accept that she's still fully human except when she isn't, then what's this say about her self-image?

[Siggdalos]

I read two different years, 81 and 82. I would have been either 8/9 or 9/10, the year the movie was set in.

It's autumn 1981 in the book. In the film, the date is moved to a few months later ("6th of February 1982" is briefly visible in the newspaper in the scrapbook scene).

Here's the real artistic crime against humanity: she might not be saying that purely on practical grounds. If she's not young, and not old, if she's not a boy and not a girl - if, in other words, she really is nothing - and you accept that she's still fully human except when she isn't, then what's this say about her self-image?

I think that, in that line, he's being sincere about how he views himself, and furthermore that it's something he's thought about a lot over the years. It's not just something he tells Oskar on the spot.

Eli lies to Oskar time and again throughout the book, but in that scene he doesn't. The most you can say is that he's deliberately vague about where he's been ("getting food") and where Håkan is ("gone"), but in the rest of the exchange he's truthful in everything he says. I think the "I'm nothing" line is no different.

Thinking of Eli as a blank slate is also consistent with how JAL thought about the character while writing.

March 14, 2001
On the subject of identity. I've let Oskar ponder who he is based on how others perceive him. Eli has taken this to the extreme in that he deliberately disguises himself and becomes different things for different people. The helpless child, Eli, the Beloved, Elias. [...] Maybe solitude, among other things, is that you've lost the ability or weakness to be defined by others. You decide for yourself. That's the most extreme transition to adulthood that Eli can offer. Solitude in one's armored self. Metaphorically, the vampire has no reflection, because with time he has become an everything and a nothing. He never reflects himself in anything other than himself.

I wanted Eli to act as an in-between. Girlish sometimes, boyish sometimes. He can be anything, and he suprised me many times while writing the novel.
[...] [F]rom the beginning Eli was just Eli. Nothing. Anything. And he is still a mystery to me.

That said, you can also read the line as Eli simply backtracking or dodging the question. I.e., he says he's not a girl. Oskar thinks this sounds absurd, coming from the very feminine Eli, and sarcastically asks if this means Eli is a boy. Fearing that Oskar will reject him if he seriously thinks that this is the case, Eli quickly adds that he's not a boy either, or anything else for that matter.

But that interpretation wouldn't explain why he brings the topic of his age (or lack thereof) into the conversation.

"Maybe you already have a boyfriend at school."
"No, but ... Oskar, I can't ... I'm not a girl."
Oskar snorted. "What do you mean? Are you a boy, or what?"
"No. No."
"So what are you?"
"Nothing."
"What do you mean 'nothing'?"
"I'm nothing. Not a child. Not old. Not a boy. Not a girl. Nothing."

(My translation.)

EDIT: It's also worth pointing out that this conversation comes only a few pages after the scene earlier in the same chapter where the cancer woman asks "Who are you?" and Eli replies "I don't know", followed by the hallucination scene in which he's confronted by his past traumas. Saying that he's "nothing" could be read as an attempt to escape all that. He doesn't want to say that he's Elias, because that would mean acknowledging that he used to have a normal life that was taken from him. He doesn't want to say that he's male, because that would mean acknowledging the mutilation he suffered. Easier and less painful to claim that he's nothing, with no identity, no past, and no scars.

Is one way of reading it, that is. I'm not saying the above thought is correct.

[Jessy7217]

"Oskar, I'm no girl", she tells him. She implies it once behind the kiosk, and flatly states it in his room.

... but what is she really saying? In the novel, while the two are sharing a blanket, she says something like "I'm not a girl, and not a boy. Not young, not old. I'm nothing".

I haven't got that far, in the book. But, I've read that Eli is absolutely a boy. That cannot be refuted. Also, Eli turned Oskar. And, Oskar loves Eli. So, he would not be interested in girls, imo.

[sauvin]

"Oskar, I'm no girl", she tells him. She implies it once behind the kiosk, and flatly states it in his room.

... but what is she really saying? In the novel, while the two are sharing a blanket, she says something like "I'm not a girl, and not a boy. Not young, not old. I'm nothing".

I haven't got that far, in the book. But, I've read that Eli is absolutely a boy. That cannot be refuted. Also, Eli turned Oskar. And, Oskar loves Eli. So, he would not be interested in girls, imo.

And when she says she's not a girl, not a boy, not young, not old - that she's nothing - what is she really saying?

[intrige]

I think what Eli feels and tried to descroie is a loss of humanity, both in age. gender and even empathy.