Control over the infection: Eli v Virginia

[Alice?Maybe]

As I read LTROI for the third time something really struck me. Eli has control, not the infection. Maybe a symbiotic relationship. But Virginia says she has no control over the infection. Virginia knows she will kill Lacke. But Eli just as she's about to take Oskar, stops. Eli says she will never hurt Oskar. Emotionally Eli should be less mature, yet when it comes to living with the infection is far more mature than Virginia. Do we explain this by the relative length if time that each has been in a 'relationship' with her infection? Are there personality differences in the infection itself and Eli's is more trusting of its host than Virginia's? Is Virginia's sense of morality greater so she just feels less in control?

I don't know why this stuck out so much this time through, but it has.

[dongregg]

As I read LTROI for the third time something really struck me. Eli has control, not the infection. Maybe a symbiotic relationship. But Virginia says she has no control over the infection. Virginia knows she will kill Lacke. But Eli just as she's about to take Oskar, stops. Eli says she will never hurt Oskar. Emotionally Eli should be less mature, yet when it comes to living with the infection is far more mature than Virginia. Do we explain this by the relative length if time that each has been in a 'relationship' with her infection? Are there personality differences in the infection itself and Eli's is more trusting of its host than Virginia's? Is Virginia's sense of morality greater so she just feels less in control?

I don't know why this stuck out so much this time through, but it has.

These are all probably right to some degree--relative length of relationship with her infection; personality differences in the infection (or maybe in the infected); Virginia's moral repulsion. But I think we can consider Eli's powerful feelings for Oskar. Perhaps Eli's desperate and unexpectedly strong need for Oskar's friendship has caught the infection off guard. Even if that is so, it seems like a close run thing, that Oskar's powerful friend is dangerously unpredictable. Or maybe I just want to see an edge of danger in the relationship.

[metoo]

...about El's ability to fight the urge to feed, compared to Virginia's.

Eli is able to restrain from feeding on Oskar without Oskar even noticing what actually occurred. This happens twice. Still, the second time Eli reacts almost too late to the onset of the "feeding mode". He was taken off guard by Oskar's hug, didn't at first know how to respond, but eventually accepted the embrace. Sadly, a few seconds later he was reminded that being that close to Oskar when starving was was like playing with fire.

Later the same night Eli visited the cancer sick woman. The next night he apparently was confident that he was not dangerous to Oskar, since he came to visit Oskar's bedroom, and spent the night in Oskar's bed.

However, a week later Eli was starving again. He still showed up to spend the evening with Oskar, played with him. Was he confident he would be able to keep the infection at bay, even when starving? Probably, two centuries of experience must have taught him something. But maybe it was a bit of wishful thinking, too. He really wanted to be with Oskar. Needed to. Anyway, Eli certainly wasn't prepared to Oskar's bleeding hand. It took him a huge effort to keep the infection down, and finally to save Oskar by running away.

Virginia had no experience at all. She went to Gösta to feed, only to meet Lacke there. Inexperienced and starving, she still was able to fight the infection and not attack when Lacke was trying to keep her inside Gösta's apartment. He would have been the easiest target, but Virginia's horror was greater than her urge to feed. My conclusion is that Eli and Virginia are about equally able to fight the infection, given a sufficiently strong incentive.

===

Now, this subject opens up for an interesting question about Eli and a turned Oskar. From time to tome they would be starving, or at least hungry. Would they need to fight an urge to feed upon the other at those times? The most pleasant answer, of course, is no. We want them to always feel comfortable in each other's arms. But what would be the explanation of this desirable feat?

Maybe they cannot feed on vampire blood, for some reason. This, unfortunately, is contradicted by the novel. The vampire lord fed on Eli many times, it suggests, and Eli must have been a fully developed vampire but for the first time.

Another solution might be that O&E make sure that they always are relatively well fed. However, that wouldn't work out all the time. From time to time they would have difficulties finding a suitable victim before they pass the safe limit. And we have the long rests, assuming this pattern will continue.

Or, maybe, the infection can be taught what's off limits. Let's assume the infection communicates with the human host through emotions. If the communication is bi-directional, the infection would sense the host's feelings. Then, the absolute horror Eli must have felt when he almost was unable to restrain himself in the basement would have flooded the infection, and perhaps that was sufficient to quench all future urges to feed on Oskar. This is may favourite idea, anyway.

Still, the infection inside a freshly turned Oskar would also need to learn. I have explored this idea here. I have tried it a second time, too, in an unpublished ff. There Oskar actually did attack Eli, but being much weaker he of course didn't hurt Eli seriously. It looked worse that it actually was, and Eli soon healed. Oskar was profoundly shaken, though.

[Alice?Maybe]

My conclusion is that Eli and Virginia are about equally able to fight the infection, given a sufficiently strong incentive.

Except that Virginia believes that she is a danger to Lacke, while Eli knows she won't hurt Oskar. It's kinda moot since Virginia suicides, like most others who have had the infection (according to the only other one Eli ever met).

As far as feeding off one another. I read the passage of Eli's experience with the lord as time dilation as we oft experience while in the midsts of a violently traumatic experience. That is as a single event. But then the woman Eli met who is the only other creature like her, asks Eli if she wants to, but isn't specific. I think I thought she meant feed on one another.

Eli told Oskar that there is no other way for her to survive without killing. Then she feeds off Tommy without killing him or infecting him. Could she have learned a new strategy? In Vampire Academy people who are really into vampire novels offer themselves up to be fed upon, then are given something to erase the memory or make it seem fantasylike. Is that a possible future for Oskar and Eli?

[metoo]

My conclusion is that Eli and Virginia are about equally able to fight the infection, given a sufficiently strong incentive.

Except that Virginia believes that she is a danger to Lacke, while Eli knows she won't hurt Oskar. It's kinda moot since Virginia suicides, like most others who have had the infection (according to the only other one Eli ever met).

Quite the opposite: Eli was convinced that Oskar was going to die there in the basement.
Eli kröp fram en bit till, stannade igen. Hon tvingade kroppen att knyta sig så att hennes huvud böjdes ner mot golvet, skrek:
"Gå. Annars dör du!"
Eli crawled forward a little more, stopped again. She forced her body to knit so her head was turned towards the floor, cried:
"Go! Or else you'll die!" My translation.

As far as feeding off one another. I read the passage of Eli's experience with the lord as time dilation as we oft experience while in the midsts of a violently traumatic experience. That is as a single event. But then the woman Eli met who is the only other creature like her, asks Eli if she wants to, but isn't specific. I think I thought she meant feed on one another.

Well, the vampire lord had just had a drink of Eli's blood taken from the wound made during the mutilation. Why also biting? And it says "The man bites. And drinks. Bites. And drinks." To me it seems that this was something that happened repeatedly, for a long time.
For the vampire woman and Eli to feed off each other would be quite pointless, I think. The vampire woman rather had something much more sinister in mind.

Eli told Oskar that there is no other way for her to survive without killing. Then she feeds off Tommy without killing him or infecting him. Could she have learned a new strategy? In Vampire Academy people who are really into vampire novels offer themselves up to be fed upon, then are given something to erase the memory or make it seem fantasylike. Is that a possible future for Oskar and Eli?

Eli had practised that before.
Flickan la de två andra tusenlapparna i fåtöljen, satte sig på huk intill soffan, grävde fram rakbladsförpackningen ur necessären, skakade fram ett rakblad.
Hon har gjort det här förut.
The girl put the other two thousand kronor bills in the armchair, crouched next to the sofa, dug up the package of razor blades out of the toilet bag, got out a razor blade .
She has done this before. My translation.

Yes, it's Tommy's thoughts we read - he is the one that thinks that Eli has done it before, and he might not be an expert. But why would JAL write that thought into the novel, if not to tell us readers that Eli indeed had done it before?

However, we seem to have a contradiction here. Eli is able to feed without killing, but also has told Oskar that killing is inevitable. But I think there is no conflict. Eli only needed to top off his reserves when he bought that litre from Tommy. He would get too little that way to sustain him in the long run. The number of people willing to sell blood in the quantities Eli needs is limited, I think. It would also expose him in ways he cannot afford. Dead witnesses, on the other hand, don't speak.

Furthermore, Eli might not always possess a lot of money. What strikes me about Eli's fortune is that the box contains only hundred and thousand kronor bills. No fivers, no tenners, no fifty kronor bills. None of the older, much larger thousand kronor bills that where used just a few years earlier. No foreign money. No coins. My conclusion is that Eli had obtained his money recently, within that last few years. So buying blood had perhaps not always been an option.

[Alice?Maybe]

My conclusion is that Eli and Virginia are about equally able to fight the infection, given a sufficiently strong incentive.

Except that Virginia believes that she is a danger to Lacke, while Eli knows she won't hurt Oskar. It's kinda moot since Virginia suicides, like most others who have had the infection (according to the only other one Eli ever met).

Quite the opposite: Eli was convinced that Oskar was going to die there in the basement.
Eli kröp fram en bit till, stannade igen. Hon tvingade kroppen att knyta sig så att hennes huvud böjdes ner mot golvet, skrek:
"Gå. Annars dör du!"
Eli crawled forward a little more, stopped again. She forced her body to knit so her head was turned towards the floor, cried:
"Go! Or else you'll die!" My translation.

The passage also says that Eli flees while she is still in control. Also, that incident precedes the one where Eli tells Oskar, quite absolutely, that she will never hurt him. Maybe it took that event for her to be sure. Maybe she didn't realize it was possible before.

As far as feeding off one another. I read the passage of Eli's experience with the lord as time dilation as we oft experience while in the midsts of a violently traumatic experience. That is as a single event. But then the woman Eli met who is the only other creature like her, asks Eli if she wants to, but isn't specific. I think I thought she meant feed on one another.

Well, the vampire lord had just had a drink of Eli's blood taken from the wound made during the mutilation. Why also biting? And it says "The man bites. And drinks. Bites. And drinks." To me it seems that this was something that happened repeatedly, for a long time.
For the vampire woman and Eli to feed off each other would be quite pointless, I think. The vampire woman rather had something much more sinister in mind.

I am of like opinion concerning what the woman was talking about. Something Eli finds quite distasteful. Also, she reminds Eli of the lord in the look in her eyes.

Eli told Oskar that there is no other way for her to survive without killing. Then she feeds off Tommy without killing him or infecting him. Could she have learned a new strategy? In Vampire Academy people who are really into vampire novels offer themselves up to be fed upon, then are given something to erase the memory or make it seem fantasylike. Is that a possible future for Oskar and Eli?

Eli had practised that before.
Flickan la de två andra tusenlapparna i fåtöljen, satte sig på huk intill soffan, grävde fram rakbladsförpackningen ur necessären, skakade fram ett rakblad.
Hon har gjort det här förut.
The girl put the other two thousand kronor bills in the armchair, crouched next to the sofa, dug up the package of razor blades out of the toilet bag, got out a razor blade .
She has done this before. My translation.

Yes, it's Tommy's thoughts we read - he is the one that thinks that Eli has done it before, and he might not be an expert. But why would JAL write that thought into the novel, if not to tell us readers that Eli indeed had done it before?

However, we seem to have a contradiction here. Eli is able to feed without killing, but also has told Oskar that killing is inevitable. But I think there is no conflict. Eli only needed to top off his reserves when he bought that litre from Tommy. He would get too little that way to sustain him in the long run. The number of people willing to sell blood in the quantities Eli needs is limited, I think. It would also expose him in ways he cannot afford. Dead witnesses, on the other hand, don't speak.

Furthermore, Eli might not always possess a lot of money. What strikes me about Eli's fortune is that the box contains only hundred and thousand kronor bills. No fivers, no tenners, no fifty kronor bills. None of the older, much larger thousand kronor bills that where used just a few years earlier. No foreign money. No coins. My conclusion is that Eli had obtained his money recently, within that last few years. So buying blood had perhaps not always been an option.

I agree that it would be too expensive to buy blood if she paid everyone as much as she paid Tommy. It's like she's a normal 12 year old when it comes to appreciating the value of money. But the Vampire Academy solution is feasible. There are millions upon millions of fans of vampire fiction. Some of whom would be willing to give blood every now and again. Run a craigslist ad. How often does she need to feed? Twice a week, three times? Lets say half a liter from each donor, because a liter is an awful lot of blood to lose at any one time. She would need 8 donors for a feeding. So, 80 would do, because we can give half a liter a month. It wouldn't be easy, but is plausible. I doubt that they would think of this being children and not having the benefit of seeing that particular movie. I wouldn't have thought of it had I not seen it.

Could it be she thinks that killing is inevitable because she does not want to infect anyone and didn't know that getting blood as she did from Tommy doesn't lead to infection. She did worry about that, so she didn't know. It seems that to Eli it is better to kill than to infect, but learned through Tommy that she can get blood without infecting.

[sauvin]

How would one have browsed or advertised on craigslist in 1982?

[dongregg]

...

[Alice?Maybe]

How would one have browsed or advertised on craigslist in 1982?

Good point. I screwed that one up.

[metoo]

I agree that it would be too expensive to buy blood if she paid everyone as much as she paid Tommy. It's like she's a normal 12 year old when it comes to appreciating the value of money. But the Vampire Academy solution is feasible. There are millions upon millions of fans of vampire fiction. Some of whom would be willing to give blood every now and again. Run a craigslist ad. How often does she need to feed? Twice a week, three times? Lets say half a liter from each donor, because a liter is an awful lot of blood to lose at any one time. She would need 8 donors for a feeding. So, 80 would do, because we can give half a liter a month. It wouldn't be easy, but is plausible. I doubt that they would think of this being children and not having the benefit of seeing that particular movie. I wouldn't have thought of it had I not seen it.

I disagree, it isn't plausible. And you can't give whole blood as often as once a month, the recovery time is at least twice that, which at least doubles the number of people needed to sustain Eli's life. All of whom have to keep the secret.

Could it be she thinks that killing is inevitable because she does not want to infect anyone and didn't know that getting blood as she did from Tommy doesn't lead to infection. She did worry about that, so she didn't know. It seems that to Eli it is better to kill than to infect, but learned through Tommy that she can get blood without infecting.

Well, the novel says:
Men innan Eli gick till vila måste han titta till Tommy. Att han återhämtat sig. Smittad hade han inte blivit. Men för Oskars skull ville han se efter att Tommy klarade sig.
But before Eli went to rest he had to look after Tommy. That he had recovered. He hadn't been infected. But for Oskar's sake he wanted to check that Tommy would make it. My translation.

Note that the Swedish text is more emphatic than the English translation I made. It literally says "infected he had not become", stressing the adjective by setting it first. Tommy had not been infected. Thus, Eli knew this was a safe procedure, most likely from earlier experience. What he was less sure of was that Tommy would cope with the rather substantial blood loss.