I could see this as some how related to Oskar's stroking Eli's cheek just before Eli was going to kill Oskar. I would agree that Eli's behavior is boyish for the most part, little clues dropped along the way before we really find out about Eli.metoo wrote:JAL has stated that he intended Eli to be an androgyne. Still, Eli's behaviour (in the novel) is often rather boyish. What examples of girlish behaviour (apart from his appearance) can we find?
I come to think of Eli stroking Oskar's wounded cheek as something a boy wouldn't do.
In which part we do find out about Eli?


- gattoparde59
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Re: In which part we do find out about Eli?
I'll break open the story and tell you what is there. Then, like the others that have fallen out onto the sand, I will finish with it, and the wind will take it away.
Nisa
- Alice?Maybe
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Re: In which part we do find out about Eli?
Let's see, this one is hard for me because I don't really associate behaviours with boyish or girlish. When I taught 3 and 4 year olds there was quite a bit of crossover in play. Girls would play on the climber, build things with the blocks and boys would be in the kitchen area playing house. However, even though there was a good deal of crossover the climber and blocks seemed to draw more boys than girls and the kitchen/house play area tended to have more girls in it than boys. This was 30 years ago. As a kid, girls played tag, wrestled, played baseball, etc., as well as dolls, house, etc. Not many boys in those days played with the dolls, I did but...can't judge by what I might do.metoo wrote:JAL has stated that he intended Eli to be an androgyne. Still, Eli's behaviour (in the novel) is often rather boyish. What examples of girlish behaviour (apart from his appearance) can we find?
I come to think of Eli stroking Oskar's wounded cheek as something a boy wouldn't do.
So, in my estimation, all the compassionate, touchy-feely stuff Eli does could be considered girlish. Like the cheek stroking you mention, also the cuddling in bed with Oskar. Then there are the several times Eli wants to kiss Oskar, at least once Oskar turned down the offer. I see kissing as more girlish than boyish, but that could just be me.
"I'm not a girl" (except when I am)
Re: In which part we do find out about Eli?
Trying to find some as I look through the book.metoo wrote:JAL has stated that he intended Eli to be an androgyne. Still, Eli's behaviour (in the novel) is often rather boyish. What examples of girlish behaviour (apart from his appearance) can we find?
I come to think of Eli stroking Oskar's wounded cheek as something a boy wouldn't do.
- Eli kisses Oskar several times.
- The pink top Eli wears during the first two jungle gym encounters
- Eli strokes Oskar's face as he falls asleep.
- Eli's notes to Oskar - both sleepover notes and some of the phrasings in the note Elias leaves for Oskar when Oskar wakes up in Eli's flat
- Gestures such as "Eli pushed a tendril of hair behind her ear."
Re: In which part we do find out about Eli?
For each one I find, there are about a dozen that suggest Eli is a boy.
- Alice?Maybe
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Re: In which part we do find out about Eli?
The biggest thing Eli does that is associated with being a girl is she presents as a girl. She wears girl clothes. When presented with clear choice, Eli picks Oskar's mom's dress over Oskar's boy clothes, seems on the girlish side of the binary. Everyone who sees her sees a girl. Now, this has no actual bearing on whether or not Eli is a girl or boy, just another example of behaviour we, observers, tend to associate with girlness.
Last edited by Alice?Maybe on Fri Jun 20, 2014 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"I'm not a girl" (except when I am)
- Alice?Maybe
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Re: In which part we do find out about Eli?
Could you give some examples? Like I said I really don't see them, but then I might not recognize them.gkmoberg1 wrote:For each one I find, there are about a dozen that suggest Eli is a boy.
"I'm not a girl" (except when I am)
Re: In which part we do find out about Eli?
I'm rusty on the descriptions of Eli in the book, but isn't Oskar's mom's dress the only time he wears a dress, the rest of the time he wears trousers. Or am I being overly influenced by the film?Alice?Maybe wrote:The biggest thing Eli does that is associated with being a girl is she presents as a girl. She wears girl clothes. When presented with clear choice, Eli picks Oskar's mom's dress over Oskar's boy clothes, seems on the girlish side of the binary. Everyone who sees her sees a girl. Now, this has no actual bearing on whether or not Eli is a girl or boy, just another example of behaviour we, observers, tend to associate with girlness.
.
"For a few seconds Oskar saw through Eli’s eyes. And what he saw was … himself. Only much better, more handsome, stronger than what he thought of himself. Seen with love."
Re: In which part we do find out about Eli?
Well another factor for me why I see Eli as a girl is because in school there were girls that had those behaviors that are described as boyish. Girls would wear shorts, pants, and even fight and be rude.
Then Eli says to the cancer woman that he does not even know who he is anymore.
Then Eli says to the cancer woman that he does not even know who he is anymore.
Last edited by EEA on Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: In which part we do find out about Eli?
Well, that's the only time in the novel where Eli puts on a dress.Alice?Maybe wrote:[...]When presented with clear choice, Eli picks Oskar's mom's dress over Oskar's boy clothes, seems on the girlish side of the binary. [...]
But what does the novel tell about Eli's clothing in general?
- At the first time Oskar sees him, Eli has a thin, pink sweater on. We might assume that he also wore trousers and shoes, otherwise Oskar would have noticed it. Eli later leaves the pink sweater at Jocke's dead body.
- The next outfit is trainers, blue jeans, and a black college sweater on which was printed "Star wars". This is not a particularly girlish way to dress, in fact Oskar himself had a similar sweater. (I don't think it actually was Oskar's sweater.)
- The third "outfit" is Eli's birthday costume. He doesn't seem to be ashamed of showing himself naked in front of Håkan. Maybe that's a clue. And, of course, Eli shows up similarly dressed at Oskar's windowsill a few days later.
- Next time Eli wears a much to big plaid shirt. Most likely he was also wearing trousers and shoes.
- Then Oskar visits Eli's apartment, and Eli is wearing panties and a read t-shirt with a picture of Iron Maiden's mascot Eddie. This is a rather mixed dress-up, the Iron Maiden t-shirt is rather boyish, while the panties definitely are female. After Oskar recognises the t-ahirt from the garbage room, and remarks about it, Eli changes to the plaid shirt.
- When Eli appears from Oskar's bathroom after having showered off the blood, he is wearing a towel swept around his waist. This might be interpreted as boyish, a girl might maybe rather have done it like Lina did in the movie. Before showering he had been wearing a shirt - maybe the plaid one? Most likely he had also worn trousers and shoes.
- Eli chooses a dress from the wardrobe in Oskar's room. For those unfamiliar with Oskar's apartment, there was a wall of built-in wardrobes and cupboards in the single sleeping room of the apartment where Oskar lived with his mum. This was the only place to hang clothes, so Oskar's mum kept her clothes there, too.
But from the beginning Eli was just Eli. Nothing. Anything. And he is still a mystery to me. John Ajvide Lindqvist
- gattoparde59
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Re: In which part we do find out about Eli?
I seem to recall that Eli's choice of the the mother's sundress was left over from a Lindqvist idea to give Eli the powers of a skogsrå, a beautiful woman, but hollow like a tree. Eli would then have been able to fill out the dress quite nicely.
Not sure which argument this supports however.
Seems to me like the dress is left in for comic effect.
Not sure which argument this supports however.
I'll break open the story and tell you what is there. Then, like the others that have fallen out onto the sand, I will finish with it, and the wind will take it away.
Nisa