The Impact of Choosing Less Beautiful Leads for LTROI

[sauvin]

PS: intrige, thanks for giving me the idea for my avatar. I ripped it off from a big version of it that was at the bottom of one of your posts. If I knew how to do screen captures or whatever, I would have one of my favorite shots of Eli as my avatar. Why? Because I like looking at everybody's avatars, especially scenes from the film or of fan art or whatever.

I have screen shot capability. What would you like?

[intrige]

You're welcome. My avatar is a screenshot of one of the few IRL shot fan-videoes i have made for ltroi, it's me playing Eli in one og his childhood memories.

To me beauty is overrated sinply for the same reasons you stated.

[dongregg]

I have screen shot capability. What would you like?

Pretty cool. OK, I'm using approx times from a subs list:
1. 0:21 Best shot ever: After Oskar observes, "Du luktar konstigt," Eli raises an eyebrow and smiles slightly.
2. 0:30 "Luktar jag bättre?" I don't know how her face will look after cropping???
3. 0:42 "Why do you aks?" Renaissance angel.
4. 1:20 Dirty fingernails after "Are you old?"
5. 1:21 Eli decides to open the door.
6. 1:22 Eli after Oskar walks away.
7. 1:26 After "Tja" and before "You have to invite me in."

C'est super! Vous êtes très gentil!

[sauvin]

Dongregg, see if any of these look any good.

[jetboy]

Thanks for your welcome. Your observation about our disconnect from the natural world is very much in line with what, I think, the author and the director are showing us in LTROI. Blackeberg is an unnatural setting, a slapped together development project that even Lacke finds fault with. "It was supposed to be perfect." I would just ask you to consider another cause for widespread unhappiness--lack of community. As I understand it, Blackeberg was built and then everyone moved in at the same time--a little town of strangers. In contrast, imagine a slightly older world in which relatives lived nearby and you had the same neighbors for years. Adults knew the kids' names and where they lived. Kids interacted with adults a lot each day, not just at school or at the dinner table. In LTROI, the kids are on their own. The isolation of neighbors from one another and the isolation of the adults from the kids means that a lot could happen that would go unnoticed. Put together separation from the natural world plus lack of community--you get something that would make a good sci fi drama. Except Blackeberg isn't fiction and it's now (well, 1982), not a set-in-the-future, off-world community of stranded colonists slowly going crazy.

I agree and think that JAL's story, though specific to his experience, brings up something relevant to many peoples experience, and its why the story is so effective. Sure the setting in his story practically breeds isolationism but I think the exaggeration of that particular circumstance brought about something that is quite universal, and becoming more universal the more modern we get.

Some who watch LTROI respond strongly to two powerful themes--bullying and vampirism. Yet, a lot of forum contributors have said that neither theme grabs them as much as the interaction between Oskar and Eli, their growing relationship. Here's why that is true for me--the bullying and the existential parameters of vampirism are just the proximal causes for Oskar and Eli's isolation and unbearable loneliness. To me, they are framing devices. The great triumph of LTROI is that the two people who exhibit the most extreme effects of isolation are also the only two who are lucky and bold enough to find a way out of it. Ironically, vengeful Oskar and murderous Eli affirm life rather than descending further into the isolation and despair that Blackeberg represents.

I don't see it quite like that and maybe because I tend to want to keep the vampirism of the story more upfront. I mean I definitely see it in terms of lonliness but one's lonliness is based in reality where the other one's is unfathomable. To think about Eli's epic lonliness is also to equate it with the lonliness she is causing with her killing and it starts becoming this big discussion about morality and less about the lonliness. Oskar on the other hand reminded me of a person with a mind set of a budding school shooter, something very relevant to these times. So in that sense I see Eli as either some kind of angel or figment of Oskar's imagination. As I said before though she can be an angel and still be real.

I have countless of times thought that Oskar and Eli in a way reprecent what I never had. A bit sad, but true. And I think that also attracted me more to it, espesially later after my intense infection worm off. I want that, but haven't had it. Then I can drift away in LTROI instead.

I want no pity, love will come and I am still young. I just keep thinking if someone kissed me when I was 12 (wanting to kiss me and then doing so, not just a game or something), where around me people kept calling me ugly and all, I would view myself very differently today.
Sorry, I am a bit sad today, but I find the forum confortable.

I honestly think that's what LTROI is about, to bring out that longing feeling. Yeah it can bring out sadness but I think the good kind because it shows us what we actually think is important. I know it did that for me.

[dongregg]

Dongregg, see if any of these look any good.

These are truly wonderful. Thanks! Now--decisions, decisions....

[Ash]

I donno, I know a handful of members knows what I look like, the real question here I assume, is the defention of beauty.

Get a clue trig, you are beautiful, whether you realise it or not. (But as beauty is such a subjective thing, my comment is worthless, ha ha, got ya.)

[dongregg]

Some who watch LTROI respond strongly to two powerful themes--bullying and vampirism. Yet, a lot of forum contributors have said that neither theme grabs them as much as the interaction between Oskar and Eli, their growing relationship. Here's why that is true for me--the bullying and the existential parameters of vampirism are just the proximal causes for Oskar and Eli's isolation and unbearable loneliness. To me, they are framing devices. The great triumph of LTROI is that the two people who exhibit the most extreme effects of isolation are also the only two who are lucky and bold enough to find a way out of it. Ironically, vengeful Oskar and murderous Eli affirm life rather than descending further into the isolation and despair that Blackeberg represents.

I don't see it quite like that and maybe because I tend to want to keep the vampirism of the story more upfront. I mean I definitely see it in terms of lonliness but one's lonliness is based in reality where the other one's is unfathomable. To think about Eli's epic lonliness is also to equate it with the lonliness she is causing with her killing and it starts becoming this big discussion about morality and less about the lonliness. Oskar on the other hand reminded me of a person with a mind set of a budding school shooter, something very relevant to these times. So in that sense I see Eli as either some kind of angel or figment of Oskar's imagination. As I said before though she can be an angel and still be real.

Great post! The vampirism and the bullying both need to be up front. I'm not being dismissive by calling them framing devices. They are great devices for the very reason that they are why we watch LTROI. What's satisfying is that Oskar and Eli overcome the loneliness. Right, Eli has spooky vampire loneliness that we can't understand, but we see her letting Oskar in and are moved by it, so we can understand the 12-year-old part of Eli, the human part that vampirism buries. I'm not dismissive of the other characters in the movie, either, but I see them as causing or contributing to Oskar's isolation. And real or imaginary or metaphysical, Eli is just as lonely as Oskar (scene at her wall with her back to us). We root for her to find salvation, too.

What do you think of this idea: that Oskar's real revenge fanatasies are not revealed, that he dreams of revenge that precludes his getting caught? I get that idea from his answer in the classroom about no smoke in the lungs. He's not just stabbing trees and reading about gruesome murders, but he's collecting a lot of out-of-the-way information. He reads a lot. However, I hope he was on a different path, that the revenge fantasies were Oskar just letting off steam. He's counting the days to his next birthday, so he could just be waiting the ordeal out until he is older and bigger so he doesn't have to put up with as much. Anyway, instead of Oskar killing anybody, Eli does it for him (and for us, ha ha).

PS: I'm not letting Eli off the hook. She's a vampire who muders and always will be, but she is portrayed as being very sad behind that. It's not just a one-way thing. She is human and she is a vampire, and that is tragic.

[dongregg]

You're welcome. My avatar is a screenshot of one of the few IRL shot fan-videoes i have made for ltroi, it's me playing Eli in one of his childhood memories.

To me beauty is overrated simply for the same reasons you stated.

That's deep, and it's dear that your avatar is from a fan video that you made.

[jetboy]

Great post!

Thanks.

The vampirism and the bullying both need to be up front. I'm not being dismissive by calling them framing devices. They are great devices for the very reason that they are why we watch LTROI. What's satisfying is that Oskar and Eli overcome the loneliness. Right, Eli has spooky vampire loneliness that we can't understand, but we see her letting Oskar in and are moved by it, so we can understand the 12-year-old part of Eli, the human part that vampirism buries. I'm not dismissive of the other characters in the movie, either, but I see them as causing or contributing to Oskar's isolation. And real or imaginary or metaphysical, Eli is just as lonely as Oskar (scene at her wall with her back to us). We root for her to find salvation, too.

I agree with this 100%. A lot of the things I say about "figment" or "angel" or "death fantasy" in terms of the final pool scene can also merely be scene as metaphorical, with all the character's seen being physically real. An example is that some people say that the final pool scene is actually Oskar's death fantasy. Whether you agree with that or not, metaphorically or spiritually it can also be seen that Oskar was "born again". Someone also equated the pool scene with Oskar being baptized, and that's pretty cool.

What do you think of this idea: that Oskar's real revenge fanatasies are not revealed, that he dreams of revenge that precludes his getting caught? I get that idea from his answer in the classroom about no smoke in the lungs. He's not just stabbing trees and reading about gruesome murders, but he's collecting a lot of out-of-the-way information. He reads a lot. However, I hope he was on a different path, that the revenge fantasies were Oskar just letting off steam. He's counting the days to his next birthday, so he could just be waiting the ordeal out until he is older and bigger so he doesn't have to put up with as much. Anyway, instead of Oskar killing anybody, Eli does it for him (and for us, ha ha).

One of the elements that keeps it in the horror genre for me is the spooky lack of expression on Oskar's face. It could belie nothing but a frustrated, but normal kid, or the next Jefferey Dahmer. However, to me its about a moment in a kids life where he could either take a left, or a right in life. I like to think that meeting Eli helps him take the good path where he wouldn't have without her. However...