Did anyone else like LMI better as a film?

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Bloody Mary
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Re: Did anyone else like LMI better as a film?

Post by Bloody Mary » Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:14 pm

The author of that link had good points. When I saw LTROI, I couldn't figure out why Oskar seemed to suddenly trust the bullies after all those years of taking abuse from them, or why he agreed to the contest. He chopped off Conny's ear in front of a bunch of witnesses, but he couldn't walk away from the brother and his knife.
"Do not go gentle into that good night . . . Rage, rage against the dying of the light." -Dylan Thomas

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dongregg
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Re: Did anyone else like LMI better as a film?

Post by dongregg » Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:26 pm

Bloody Mary wrote:The author of that link had good points. When I saw LTROI, I couldn't figure out why Oskar seemed to suddenly trust the bullies after all those years of taking abuse from them, or why he agreed to the contest. He chopped off Conny's ear in front of a bunch of witnesses, but he couldn't walk away from the brother and his knife.
From LTROI, the film: The bullies had tricked the teacher into leaving the pool area. They had run off all of the other kids. They had Oskar cornered in the pool. Four against one. He had survived other attacks in the past. He could only hope that the bullies wouldn't take the contest too far. Or that Mr. Ávila would return. Or something. Oskar's options were pretty limited. If he had not come to Jimmy, Jimmy and the others would have come for him...and they would have been wet and very angry as well as mean.
“For drama to deepen, we must see the loneliness of the monster and the cunning of the innocent.”

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metoo
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Re: Did anyone else like LMI better as a film?

Post by metoo » Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:33 am

Bloody Mary wrote:The author of that link had good points. When I saw LTROI, I couldn't figure out why Oskar seemed to suddenly trust the bullies after all those years of taking abuse from them, or why he agreed to the contest. He chopped off Conny's ear in front of a bunch of witnesses, but he couldn't walk away from the brother and his knife.
I have to agree about being sceptical to Oskar trusting that phone call. But that he obeyed Jimmy in the pool is very believable. He was scared, and fear is a very powerful demotivator.
But from the beginning Eli was just Eli. Nothing. Anything. And he is still a mystery to me. John Ajvide Lindqvist

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dongregg
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Re: Did anyone else like LMI better as a film?

Post by dongregg » Sun Aug 03, 2014 2:57 am

metoo wrote:
Bloody Mary wrote:The author of that link had good points. When I saw LTROI, I couldn't figure out why Oskar seemed to suddenly trust the bullies after all those years of taking abuse from them, or why he agreed to the contest. He chopped off Conny's ear in front of a bunch of witnesses, but he couldn't walk away from the brother and his knife.
I have to agree about being sceptical to Oskar trusting that phone call. But that he obeyed Jimmy in the pool is very believable. He was scared, and fear is a very powerful demotivator.
The bullies set Oskar up nicely. First Martin joked with him at the pool. Then they let it slide in the schoolyard when Oskar mocked Conny for being deaf from the whack on the ear. Martin made the phone call. When Oskar showed skepticism, Martin won him over by saying he approved of what Oskar did to Conny. Also, he pretended to be speaking for Mr. Ávila, whom Oskar trusts. Give the bullies credit for meticulous planning, including the fire to get Mr. Ávila out of the pool area. Psychopaths can be very focused. As I've said in other places on the forum, psychopaths can usually manage to stay one step ahead of all of us because they are monomaniacal when there is something they want. I don't think Oskar was being overly trusting, just easily fooled by very evil kids who were bent on seriously hurting him. At first I thought a little better of Conny and Martin because they wanted Jimmy to stop. Now I think it wasn't because they were concerned that Oskar was about to drown. I think the little monsters were just chickening out, afraid of how much trouble they would get into.

Oh, and don't go messing with a kid whose BFF is a serial killer. It won't turn out well for you.
“For drama to deepen, we must see the loneliness of the monster and the cunning of the innocent.”

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gkmoberg1
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Re: Did anyone else like LMI better as a film?

Post by gkmoberg1 » Mon Aug 04, 2014 2:57 am

dongregg wrote:I don't think Oskar was being overly trusting, just easily fooled by very evil kids who were bent on seriously hurting him. At first I thought a little better of Conny and Martin because they wanted Jimmy to stop. Now I think it wasn't because they were concerned that Oskar was about to drown. I think the little monsters were just chickening out, afraid of how much trouble they would get into.
hmmm. I think they chickened out because the real event was scarier than they had thought it would be when they were excitedly planning it.
dongregg wrote:Oh, and don't go messing with a kid whose BFF is a serial killer. It won't turn out well for you.
Yup, got that right.

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dongregg
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Re: Did anyone else like LMI better as a film?

Post by dongregg » Mon Aug 04, 2014 4:02 am

gkmoberg1 wrote:hmmm. I think they chickened out because the real event was scarier than they had thought it would be when they were excitedly planning it.
Right. They're kids and Jimmy isn't. Don't think they thought it through.
dongregg wrote:Oh, and don't go messing with a kid whose BFF is a serial killer. It won't turn out well for you.
gkmoberg1 wrote:Yup, got that right.
“For drama to deepen, we must see the loneliness of the monster and the cunning of the innocent.”

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metoo
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Re: Did anyone else like LMI better as a film?

Post by metoo » Mon Aug 04, 2014 5:11 am

gkmoberg1 wrote:I think they chickened out because the real event was scarier than they had thought it would be when they were excitedly planning it.
I agree, although perhaps the expression "chicken out" is not the best one.

In contrast, novel Jonny did not chicken out. Micke did, but he was never informed about exactly what J&J intended to do. And he was the one who let Eli in. Why did JAL choose him for this role? There were plenty of other boys available. This must be significant.
But from the beginning Eli was just Eli. Nothing. Anything. And he is still a mystery to me. John Ajvide Lindqvist

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gkmoberg1
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Re: Did anyone else like LMI better as a film?

Post by gkmoberg1 » Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:17 pm

Yes, "chicken out" is not the right term.

As for your thoughts concerning the novel's version of Micke's fate: Perhaps it was part of the struggle JAL went through to make sure we (the Readers/Audience) did not throw out our empathy for Eli (and Oskar) because of what occurs at the pool. By sparing Micke, who let Eli into the area (as you pointed out) , it shows Eli is not sheer monster, but rather a focused one.

As well, to Eli it might not have been apparent that Micke was part of the scheme. At the point when Eli comes through the glass window, he would have seen J&J next to Oskar. Micke would have been nearby to the entrance door where he uttered his permission that allowed Eli to come in. I know the Blackeberg pool building** has little space within, yet it may have been that Micke was at some distance away from J&J - or at enough of a distance so that Eli did not consider him part of the pack.

**understanding it no longer contains a pool, or at least is no longer used as a pool building.

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dongregg
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Re: Did anyone else like LMI better as a film?

Post by dongregg » Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:22 pm

Bloody Mary wrote:The author of that link had good points. When I saw LTROI, I couldn't figure out why Oskar seemed to suddenly trust the bullies after all those years of taking abuse from them, or why he agreed to the contest. He chopped off Conny's ear in front of a bunch of witnesses, but he couldn't walk away from the brother and his knife.
This observation seems to be about the film LTROI. It's too confusing to me to mix the film and the book when questions of motivation arise.

I'm just saying.
“For drama to deepen, we must see the loneliness of the monster and the cunning of the innocent.”

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metoo
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Re: Did anyone else like LMI better as a film?

Post by metoo » Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:38 pm

gkmoberg1 wrote:As for your thoughts concerning the novel's version of Micke's fate: Perhaps it was part of the struggle JAL went through to make sure we (the Readers/Audience) did not throw out our empathy for Eli (and Oskar) because of what occurs at the pool. By sparing Micke, who let Eli into the area (as you pointed out) , it shows Eli is not sheer monster, but rather a focused one.
In the novel, Micke was standing amongst the rest of the boys at the far end of the pool, compared to where Oskar was. Any of those boys could have let Eli in, but JAL chose Micke. That is what I think is significant - JAL's choice. Did he come to terms with the real Micke later in his life, and thus had no anger towards him? He killed Jonny in the novel, and regretted that he wasn't able to kill Tomas, too, but fixed that later in the movie script. But Micke still survived.
But from the beginning Eli was just Eli. Nothing. Anything. And he is still a mystery to me. John Ajvide Lindqvist

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