What you tell non-infected about LtROI

[EEA]

Even though I am happy for them. I think what about those people that they killed? Doesn't their lives matter? If they existed in the real world they would not survive.
That's why I have always try to find a cure for them in some of my ff, but they don't work. They both have to continue to kill others to survive.
It does lead myself to question why I root for them if I know what will happen once they get off the train.

[Drakeule]

Whew. I'm glad my little complaint got you guys talking! On a better note, We had a Carrie and LTROI movie screening last night, (made sure she was sober this time) and she came around. Not saying she'd be an infected, but at least she appreciated this time.

[PeteMork]

...Eli is loved by us Infected and JAL and as such, is guaranteed a fairy tale happy ending, if only in each of our minds. In my imagination, at least, she will have a long and happy life nomming people with Oskar, traveling the world with youthful enthusiasm for life and absolutely content in Oskar's company, only experiencing enough sadness to retain an appreciation for joy.

I personally have a real problem with these two polar-opposite ideas: Long and happy life, vs. nomming people with Oskar. Using my own temperament and sensibilities as a template, I don’t think it would be possible for me to reconcile killing even strangers, and then going on about my sweet, happy life as though nothing had happened. I think it would psychologically damage them both; especially Oskar. Especially in the ‘real world.’ Of course, to be clear, I firmly believe that becoming completely insensitive to death and killing is a form of psychological damage.

So. Either they become so insensitive to death that they can live happy lives, (in which case they are sociopaths) or they feel terrible every time they have to kill someone – hardly a long and happy life. And, at least in the film, we do have a hint that Eli feels remorse when she has to kill. I don’t think that, by any stretch of the imagination, Eli will learn to discount her feelings about killing just because she has someone she cares about to do it with her.

Which, of course is why the vast bulk of my FF was concerned with how to keep either or both of them from having to kill to survive. And, ironically, JAL gave us one perfect way to accomplish this: If Eli can safely drink blood gathered in a germ-ridden plastic bottle under extremely unsanitary conditions, she could safely drink blood bank blood, no matter how clichéd this solution may be.

I’m just sayin’

[dongregg]

...she could safely drink blood bank blood, no matter how clichéd this solution may be.

Okay, but what if she grabbed some type AB blood at a North Alabama blood bank and it was spiked with CHERRY KOOL-AID? Drn drn drn DRRRRN!

Anyway, I accept it is as part of the canon that she is unhappy about killing people. Doesn't mean she can't have happy interludes.

[cmfireflies]

I personally have a real problem with these two polar-opposite ideas: Long and happy life, vs. nomming people with Oskar. Using my own temperament and sensibilities as a template, I don’t think it would be possible for me to reconcile killing even strangers, and then going on about my sweet, happy life as though nothing had happened. I think it would psychologically damage them both; especially Oskar. Especially in the ‘real world.’ Of course, to be clear, I firmly believe that becoming completely insensitive to death and killing is a form of psychological damage.

That's all true, which is why I think both the book and the movie went out of their way to show us that Eli and Oskar are psychologically damaged. They were absolutely betrayed by the ones they trusted in their formative years. Oskar being tricked by the bullies at the pool and almost drowned and Eli being left by his parents at the lord's castle to be tortured and turned. They are a few degrees past "normal" temperament and sensibilities. I think the pain that they suffered and the vampire parasite would numb them a bit to the reality of killing.

To me, LtROI is absolutely haunting because Oskar and Eli are damaged children, yet they still retain their capacity for love and found understanding and a measure of solace in each other. I just can't imagine them living "normal" lives after what they went through, and I'm as sure of this as you are sure that Oskar and Eli can't be happy killing.

I can't really explain it but I think the emotional scars that Eli and Oskar bear make them who they are, and the contrast between the darkness around them makes their love shine brighter. That's not at all a realistic view, I know, but I think it's part of the "art" of LtROI.

If I wanted to justify my perspective with "realism," I would say that that Eli and Oskar are fundamentally incompatible with human society, banked blood or no. That even if they found a family, an island, a nation to take care of them, they cannot exist peacefully with humans. They are vampires, immortal; humans die, governments fall out of power, and even nations fade. If Oskar and Eli can't survive by their own power, their lives will end with their benefactors. Or, at the other end, if Oskar and Eli could survive without any downside, on cloned plasma maybe, then humankind is obsolete, *everyone* might as well turn, and humans will not go gently into that good night.

So I think that after Oskar made the choice to run away with Eli, he made the choice to extend his life on the blood of others. As for psychological damage, if Eli can still be a 12 year old after 200 years, I think Oskar can do so as well. I think the fact that they are children makes it OK, children are not supposed to sacrifice so that adults may live. They just need to take care of themselves and each other.

[Ash]

I think you hit a few nails on the head with that post cmfireflies.

[intrige]

I think you hit a few nails on the head with that post cmfireflies.

YUP!

[PeteMork]

That's all true, which is why I think both the book and the movie went out of their way to show us that Eli and Oskar are psychologically damaged. They were absolutely betrayed by the ones they trusted in their formative years. Oskar being tricked by the bullies at the pool and almost drowned and Eli being left by his parents at the lord's castle to be tortured and turned. They are a few degrees past "normal" temperament and sensibilities. I think the pain that they suffered and the vampire parasite would numb them a bit to the reality of killing.

To me, LtROI is absolutely haunting because Oskar and Eli are damaged children, yet they still retain their capacity for love and found understanding and a measure of solace in each other. I just can't imagine them living "normal" lives after what they went through, and I'm as sure of this as you are sure that Oskar and Eli can't be happy killing.

I can't really explain it but I think the emotional scars that Eli and Oskar bear make them who they are, and the contrast between the darkness around them makes their love shine brighter. That's not at all a realistic view, I know, but I think it's part of the "art" of LtROI.

If I wanted to justify my perspective with "realism," I would say that that Eli and Oskar are fundamentally incompatible with human society, banked blood or no. That even if they found a family, an island, a nation to take care of them, they cannot exist peacefully with humans. They are vampires, immortal; humans die, governments fall out of power, and even nations fade. If Oskar and Eli can't survive by their own power, their lives will end with their benefactors. Or, at the other end, if Oskar and Eli could survive without any downside, on cloned plasma maybe, then humankind is obsolete, *everyone* might as well turn, and humans will not go gently into that good night.

So I think that after Oskar made the choice to run away with Eli, he made the choice to extend his life on the blood of others. As for psychological damage, if Eli can still be a 12 year old after 200 years, I think Oskar can do so as well. I think the fact that they are children makes it OK, children are not supposed to sacrifice so that adults may live. They just need to take care of themselves and each other.

Yes indeed; they are candles burning brightly in the darkness -- or as Lacenaire put it, " ...the story derives a lot of its appeal from its sense of despair and a darkness in which the love of Eli and Oskar seems to shine with a strange and disturbing light."

I actually agree with most of what you say here -- other than the assertion that they cannot exist peacefully with humans. They are children, after all, and I would like to believe that, given enough time, mankind will become civilized enough to accommodate them. I suppose I could also argue that, at least before his first kill, Oskar was nowhere nearly as 'damaged' as Eli (200 years of in-your-face murder, vs. two or three years of bullying.) Many of us are severely bullied as children and get along in society just fine. Just look at JAL.

But I do understand that, as JAL conceived them, we would have to worship them from afar if they currently existed in the real world. And, if I happened to live nearby, I would certainly put the lives of my own loved ones ahead of theirs if it came down to it.

[dongregg]

If I wanted to justify my perspective with "realism," I would say that that Eli and Oskar are fundamentally incompatible with human society, banked blood or no.

To me, cmfireflies, Eli and Oskar have to be incompatible with human society or the vampire part of the story is lost.

As an aside, however, I don't have much resonance with you and PeteMork's stress on how damaged Oskar and Eli are, even if it fits in with what JAL has presented us with. I think just about all children are damaged in some ways, at the very least by having to make the long transition from primate ("yard ape") to full grown human, but also by frequently having to endure some form of physical or emotional "abuse." (In quotation marks because the abuse is not always intentional.)

Maybe that's part of why we identify with Oskar and Eli. Even if we were not tortured and isolated like Eli, or if we were able to handle bullies one way or another, we all may have taken on the role of victim at some time or other. It may do little good to compare degrees of victimization because pain is like a gas -- it expands to fill all available space.

"It is not the physical pain which hurts the most (and this applies to adults as much as to punished children); it is the mental agony caused by the injustice, the unreasonableness of it all." Viktor Frankl

So I'm okay with them being unhappy about having to kill, but we are also presented with the evidence that they have the resilience to also seek joy. They're kids, and kid hopefulness is pretty common.

[epicfan84]

Hmm, interestimg. What kind of people likes LTROI?

I think there are 3 factors:
1. Bullying. (have been bullied, or has a large sympathy for those who are bullied.
2. A sucker for love stories.
3. At least tolerable for the supernatural theme.

Throw in a little patience(if you're american) and handling subs, and a little open mined approach. And the individual will love it.

The grounds of this statement is that at least half of the infected I have spoken to have been bullied in some way at some time. Most commonly during mid late childhood. I have talked to A LOT of people over the years.
If they haven't been bullied, they gush over how cute Oskar and Eli are. Seeking a fully committed relationship, or relating to it for having one.
And then there's the: I love horror movies, or I live vampire movies. And everything else in the story is a plus for them.

Most forum members are adult cis males. From their late 20s and up, some are younger. Most are older. When I joined at age 16 I was one of maybe 3 other females. And I was the most active. The men tend to stay longer than the girls. Few women have stayed as long as I, many men have stayed longer and I. We also had a transgender forum member, I think there were two, but I KNOW there was one. Had a hand full of 12 yearolds(12-14) girls. They never lasted for long either. They come one at the time and disappear before another shows up.

Being intrigued by sexuality and gender identity is also a plus, especially when reading the book. Especially considering Eli. but also Håkan to some extent. Sure he and what he thinks and feels are scary shit, but is also interesting and sympathetic. Eli, a genderless male, having no gender-specified proffered pronoun. Oskar wondering if he is gay if Eli is not a boy, or weather it actually matters. Those kind of topics doesn't hit home to just anyone. I don't mean in a religious sense, bore in a: That's fascinating kind of sense. I have known people in real life who just wouldnæt give a shit bout LGBT stuff. They ofc were straight, but most if not all, fro what I know of the forum members are plain men. Hetro, cis, men. One doesn't have to be a gay or transgender man to find gender identity and sexuality interesting.

So who knows. I guess, by each new forum member we might get close to an answer.

I can relate with all three of those. I was verbally bullied a lot in high school, love the love stories (Phantom of the Opera was my obsession before LtROI, but I think I've found a permanent home here), and definitely love the supernatural theme. Trigue makes an amazing point here and I think it should be adapted as what makes people infected. Here we can understand the characters, relate with them, then see poetic justice that we all longed for in our real lives, at least those who were bullied. Thanks so much for this post trigue.