So I Finally Got to Watch LMI too ;)

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Klesk
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So I Finally Got to Watch LMI too ;)

Post by Klesk » Sat Aug 16, 2014 11:59 am

I finally watched the movie, too. The reason why it took so long was the fear, that I wouldn't like it. I think the fear was not unjustified. The movie is emotionally “dead land” for me for several reasons.

The bullies:

In Let me in the bullies are aggressive and brutal especially Kenny, but nothing more and without passion. In Let the right one in I got the feeling that Conny and Martin were enjoying, what they did in a sadistic way. It pleasures them to humiliate Oscar, that is something I can understand in contrast to Kenny's blunt violence.

Owen/Oscar

When you look at Owens face it is so full of fear. He is a bundle of anxiety. He is screaming and weeping in front of the bullies, which is something Oscar never did. Oscar tries not to lose his dignity in contrast to Owen. When you look at Oscars face after Andreas hit him it is not fear. It is something like: “You shouldn't have done this. I will make you pay for this someday later” and Andreas knows that he has gone to far. Later on the ice immediately after Oscar got his revenge you can see in his face satisfaction and the teacher who looks at him is repelled by this. In the same scene Owen, again, is full of fear, maybe afraid of himself and about what he has done. Oscar has a dark side which is lurking under the surface. Owen seems only very timid and alienated like a single Astronaut who was left behind on the Moon. It is difficult to connect to Owen. Oscar seems to be more "normal" for me.

Abby/Eli

Unlike Abby, Eli seems to have a thousand different faces. It is so fascinating to look at her, in every scene she looks different. But it is also confusing and you feel that something is wrong with her. Abby is more limited. In the basement or at the candy store she looks pretty dressed and like a normal girl of her age. When she is in blood fancy she has her pimply Marilyn Manson look-alike face, but it also impersonalized her killings. In the first encounters she is like a lithic gargoyle,who mostly does not look directly at Owen, when they are talking to each other. She hides in her hoodie and is looking controlled, shy, maybe a little disgusted by herself and slightly unconfident. Like Kirsten Steward, by the way. Typical for some girls in their puberty. Eli is still a prepubertal child, more vulnerable, with shabby clothing, which lets her look very strange and untamed in roughly every scene and underlines her otherness. She is like a neglected street kid, who had to take care of herself very early. At the beginning where Oscar stabs the tree: Eli jumps down from the jungle gym (from a high Book Oscar wouldn't dare) and says they can´t be friends. In this scene she is ruling, dominant and snappish. In contrast, Abby only does a girlish little hop. It is not a big deal, Owen is easy to intimidate (so I am not). You don't hear one little impish sentence by her, which applies to the whole movie as well. In the next gathering we get the first close shot of Eli and she appears like a crow, who is observing her next victim. But the situation changes as Oscar gives her the rubrics cube directly in her hand. Woha, Oscar, well done. That is how you cheat death. She is confused and it breaks the ice a little. Lina's mimic art is better, you know what she thinks and feels whereas Moretz is sometimes too emotionless and stiff. You can see how Eli is thawing emotionally and finally she lets Oscar in. In contrast, Abby is still inhibited and controlled at the end. Eli has something that is subliminal threatening and vulnerable at once. Like a panther, who is in an attempt to attack. When Eli says to hit back hard, it has impact. These are not only words. There was no one who took care of her and she had to deal with Pedophiles and criminals on her own. Eli is able to prevail through these obstacles. You can see it in her appearance and her confidence. More or less comparable with Oscars bullying problem. Even if she weren't a vampire, it would have impact what she says. Abby did not experienced this. The long time relationship with Thomas, a submissive guy, protected her. A housewife. She does not know, what she is talking about when she advises Owen to hit back hard. Eli moves gracefully and athletically, which underlines her catlike predaceousness. You can see that Lina started at a very young age with sports and dancing. Me too, so I have an eye for this. Be aware that Hakan links Eli with Tintomara and quite likely that is why they had chosen Lina for Eli's role. In contrast, Moretz moves a little bit clumsy like a pawn or construction worker. But maybe this is intended by Reeves and she simply had to act this way to emphasize her gargoyleness. Abby and Eli are completely different characters. Eli is the incarnation of Oscars anger and violence, she represents the beauty/erotic of violence but fruitless violence e.g genderless, sexless, something disturbing, attractive and dangerous within. And Abby? She appears not threatening enough. She is pretty and shy. She does not impress me.

Romance/Love/Friendship

In some scenes Owen shows curiosity about sexuality, especially when he looks at the woman at his neighborhood. Owen reads Romeo and Juliet without understanding it and Abby has an interest in this book, quoting one of the lines in a massage she left. It seems that he also reads porn magazines. But it doesn't effect the relationship with Abby. Owen seems to be more immature and childlike than Abby or even Oscar. To be honest: If you had a relationship that lasted over 30 years, you have to be more mature than a normal 12 years old girl. It is challenging even for adults. Mature in a different way, of course. Thus Abby and Owen are not at the same level of development unlike Elli and Oscar. It is untypical that a mature girl seeks a partnership with a less mature and younger boy. Maybe for use and abuse. She treats Thomas so badly at the end. “Eat some now, save some for later” seems to be a running gag in this movie. Abby takes care of herself for the future but not of Owen. His neighbors are for now, he himself is for “later”. All scenes from “Let the right one in” which could be interpreted in a innocently romantic/intimate way are toned down. In the bed scene Owen is dressed, you don't see them in the same camera angle, somehow they still seem to be separated and he only touches her cheek (like she did with Thomas and therefor absolutely nothing special). It could be just as well his mother or his sister. You only see Abby's face. You do not even see parts of her upper body like in LTROI. You don't catch a glimpse whether she might be really stark-naked or not, Owen only says that she is. The bloody good bye kiss: In the entire moment Eli holds eye contact to Oscar. Oh boy, she looks so self confident and demanding (for acceptance). How should Oscar resist her? Abby doesn't do this, her kiss is just a shy teenager kiss. Nothing special. Too short and without passion. Does Ownen fully accept what Abby is, or does he only tolerate her and her kiss? Oscar touches the wall of his room so softly when he is trying to listen carefully what is going on in Eli's Apartment. He is truly longing after her. It is completely missing in Let me in. Owen doesn't need to sacrifice a good relationship to his mother or to his father. After the basement scene Oscar does hitch hike back to Eli on his own through the night. I doubt Owen would dare to do this. He goes only from his apartment to Abby's after his silly “Is there Evil”-phone call with his father. This is a lesser effort and it shows that he is not as mature as Oscar. To peep at womens breasts or Porno Magazines, does not make Owen grown up. Besides singing the Now and Later jingle to himself, which is another childish trait of Owen. The extra long shoot of Eli's eyes at the End, which personalizes Oscars rescue by Eli so much: Missing. The whole “Tale told by Hands”-Aspect is missing and there is nothing that could replace it. It is so demanding to believe, that this is a romantic relationship, because it isn't portrayed very well through the scenes and the acting. There seems to be no chemistry between the main characters. No Magic. No duo infernale. There is so much what separates them and they have so little in common. Maybe it is friendship, but it is a friendship between a boy who actually seems afraid of his companion and a girl, who is just used to have someone around her. They are together because otherwise they would be alone. The Title of the movie is changed from Let the right one in to Let me in. So it doesn't matter to let the right one in. Owen is only available for disposal. It could be anybody else. Oscar is special for Eli, whereas Own is just an other “Now and Later”. I think this is intended by Reeves, because actually this is not a love story.

Let me in appears as a trivial shoot by shoot remake. But the characters of Abby and Thomas are completely different to LTROI and thus the massage of the movie. Let me in is a typical Horror movie with characters which just seem to be rather stereotypical caricatures. It stands on its own feet, although roughly all scenes are the same as they were in LTROI. But it is also sad that the Police- and Action-Scenes are so much better than the scenes with Abby and Owen, although they are not the essence of the story.

But nevertheless there is one scene which was very good. It is the candy house scene. Do You Really Want to Hurt Me is playing and Owen tells Abby that Mrs. Pacman can eat the monsters now. Well done and they have Boy George as a shop men. ;)
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Re: So I Finally Got to Watch LMI too ;)

Post by dongregg » Sat Aug 16, 2014 7:29 pm

This is a very close reading of LMI and LTROI. Well worth the wait.

I'm interested in the strengths of LTROI that you point out in your essay. But it will keep. I don't want to clutter up an LMI topic with my LTROI thoughts.
“For drama to deepen, we must see the loneliness of the monster and the cunning of the innocent.”

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Re: So I Finally Got to Watch LMI too ;)

Post by Jameron » Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:34 pm

I agree with a lot of what you have to say about Let Me In.

The Bullies

The change in the bullies annoyed me also. You're right, they are just anger and violence. I think what Reeves was going for was a cycle of a bullied kid, in turn, becomes a bully himself. This was not part of the original story, Conny is not bullied, he does it (as you point out) for the enjoyment.

Let Me In seems to be a film about possible 'cycles', the "bully" cycle is one, Abby and her "companions" is another cyclical possibility.

Owen/Oskar

With Owen we see a boy who is fighting back, the screaming and weeping is part of his non acceptance of what the bullies are doing to him, it is part of him fighting back (although it is easy to scoff at this idea, resisting and reacting is a form of fighting back, even if it is ultimately ineffectual). Oskar, on the other hand, is not fighting back, he has already been broken. Oskar only fantasises about fighting back by stabbing the tree and imagining he is killing his tormentors.

This is why it is a little strange to see Owen upset about striking Kenny on the ice. Owen has always resisted the bullies, but with Abby’s encouragement he has become better at it. Surely this would be a good thing in Owen’s mind? I believe Owen's reaction was Reeves foreshadowing a possibility for later in the film, this was Owen being scared of what he might become (a murderer in a cycle of people that kill for Abby. Although Owen wouldn’t be thinking this yet, this is for our benefit).

With Oskar we see a triumphant celebration of a dream that he doubted would ever become a reality, anyone that has ever been bullied as a kid can see this. This is a much more natural response.

I think the character of Owen has suffered due to the Americanising of the story. From various discussions I have had, it appears that an American audience (in general) will not identify and sympathise with a character that has completely given up (Oskar). For the audience to accept Owen as worthwhile he must be seen to be resisting the bullies from the outset, which then makes his later shock at what he has done to Kenny a bit out of place, IMO.

Later in the film we see Owen resisting the bullies at the swimming pool and having to be dragged back to the pool, kicking and screaming (an excellently disturbing scene), whereas Oskar meekly moves to the side of the pool when ‘commanded’ to by Jimmy. These two scenes follow on from the bottom falling out of the boy’s lives, Abby/Eli leaving, presumably forever. We see that Owen has grown and become more confident within himself, which begs the question “how much does he need Abby?”. Oskar, however, is completely deflated at Eli’s absence and finds himself back at square one, which tells us that without Eli, Oskar is nothing.

Romance/Love/Friendship

“Eat some now, save some for later” is another hint at a possible cycle of Abby recruiting Owen to replace Thomas.

“...he only touches her cheek (like she did with Thomas...”, this again is another hint at Owen taking Thomas’ spot (as head blood collector) beside Abby.

You questioned Abby’s nakedness in the bed, but I think you missed something here. When Eli undresses, the camera shows his feet, and only his feet. We see his top hit the floor and then we see his childish “treading down” of his trousers. This is a statement of Eli’s childish non-sexuality. When Abby undresses we are given an out of focus view of the top of her body as she disrobes, it is quite voyeuristic in nature and asks questions of Abby’s sexuality. “Is Abby really as childishly innocent as Eli?”, “Does Abby know that Owen is starting to become aware of sex, and is using her nakedness to fool him?”, “Is Abby manipulative?” These are questions that should really not be asked of this relationship.

“They are together because otherwise they would be alone.” Bingo. This pretty much sums it up for me. I don’t buy into the cycle of Abby using boys to get her blood, Thomas ended up doing that but Owen might not. No, I think that Abby stumbles around and just ends up with companions because that’s better than not having companions and Owen just happened to be in the right place at the right time.
"For a few seconds Oskar saw through Eli’s eyes. And what he saw was … himself. Only much better, more handsome, stronger than what he thought of himself. Seen with love."

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Re: So I Finally Got to Watch LMI too ;)

Post by Klesk » Sun Aug 17, 2014 2:07 pm

Jameron wrote: I think what Reeves was going for was a cycle of a bullied kid, in turn, becomes a bully himself. This was not part of the original story, Conny is not bullied, he does it (as you point out) for the enjoyment.
Yes he is not bullied by his older brother. He is, rather, his role model. He wants to be like him. But it is a kind of cycle, too
Jameron wrote: Later in the film we see Owen resisting the bullies at the swimming pool and having to be dragged back to the pool, kicking and screaming (an excellently disturbing scene), whereas Oskar meekly moves to the side of the pool when ‘commanded’ to by Jimmy. These two scenes follow on from the bottom falling out of the boy’s lives, Abby/Eli leaving, presumably forever. We see that Owen has grown and become more confident within himself, which begs the question “how much does he need Abby?”. Oskar, however, is completely deflated at Eli’s absence and finds himself back at square one, which tells us that without Eli, Oskar is nothing.

What Oscar does at the pool is comparable to a scene in Schindlers List. There is simply no hope to escape. If the prisoner would have acted like Owen, it would have made the situation much worse than it should be (e.g. being dragged back to the pool). At the end only a miracle saves him. I don't see Owen as more confident. He only expresses his pain and helplessness openly by his screaming and his pointless attempt to defend himself with a knife. Both need someone who rescues them, because they are not able do it on their own.
Jameron wrote: You questioned Abby’s nakedness in the bed, but I think you missed something here. When Eli undresses, the camera shows his feet, and only his feet. We see his top hit the floor and then we see his childish “treading down” of his trousers. This is a statement of Eli’s childish non-sexuality. When Abby undresses we are given an out of focus view of the top of her body as she disrobes, it is quite voyeuristic in nature and asks questions of Abby’s sexuality. “Is Abby really as childishly innocent as Eli?”, “Does Abby know that Owen is starting to become aware of sex, and is using her nakedness to fool him?”, “Is Abby manipulative?” These are questions that should really not be asked of this relationship.
You see Eli's arms and her shoulders and it is more than you can see from Abby. The message of the scene is in my opinion: It is something special for them, they are very vulnerable (naked) and one of them is still a vampire, it is a very intimate situation and in art naked children are linked with innocence not with (especially not adult) sexuality. This is conveyed in Let the right one in a better way than in Let me In.
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Re: So I Finally Got to Watch LMI too ;)

Post by Jameron » Sun Aug 17, 2014 11:31 pm

Klesk wrote:
Jameron wrote: I think what Reeves was going for was a cycle of a bullied kid, in turn, becomes a bully himself. This was not part of the original story, Conny is not bullied, he does it (as you point out) for the enjoyment.
Yes he is not bullied by his older brother. He is, rather, his role model. He wants to be like him. But it is a kind of cycle, too
I don't really see Conny's situation as a cycle, it's more of a progression, IMO. He looks up to and admires his older brother and wants to be like him. His brother is supportive and loving. As far as their relationship goes, it's all positive reinforcement, a family business, if you like. As for Kenny and his brother, all I can see is the negative, and I think that is Reeve's point ... "cycles are bad, bear that in mind when you see a cycle involving Abby and Owen". I could be wrong, but that's what I see.
Klesk wrote:
Jameron wrote:Later in the film we see Owen resisting the bullies at the swimming pool and having to be dragged back to the pool, kicking and screaming (an excellently disturbing scene), whereas Oskar meekly moves to the side of the pool when ‘commanded’ to by Jimmy. These two scenes follow on from the bottom falling out of the boy’s lives, Abby/Eli leaving, presumably forever. We see that Owen has grown and become more confident within himself, which begs the question “how much does he need Abby?”. Oskar, however, is completely deflated at Eli’s absence and finds himself back at square one, which tells us that without Eli, Oskar is nothing.
What Oscar does at the pool is comparable to a scene in Schindlers List. There is simply no hope to escape. If the prisoner would have acted like Owen, it would have made the situation much worse than it should be (e.g. being dragged back to the pool). At the end only a miracle saves him.
I agree that there is no hope of escape for Oskar, but I think it runs deeper in that Oskar didn't even think of trying to escape. Not because his efforts would be fruitless and would make his situation worse, but because he felt he had no choice but to ultimately obey. Early in the book he has an internal discussion about this very point when he has locked himself in the toilet stall, hiding form Conny and his cohorts. The point being, even though it is hopeless you can't just give up straight away, you have to provide sport for the bullies or it'll be worse for you. There was no choice of "fight or flight", his punishment was waiting for him, he just had to minimise it as best he could. Even though it might have looked from the outside that Oskar was resisting by refusing to open the stall door, he was just playing his role in the 'game'. So, to repeat, I don't think Oskar even thought about resisting Jimmy at the pool.
Klesk wrote:I don't see Owen as more confident. He only expresses his pain and helplessness openly by his screaming and his pointless attempt to defend himself with a knife. Both need someone who rescues them, because they are not able do it on their own.
I meant that Owen was more confident than he was earlier in the film. At the beginning he was just resisting (a form of fighting back), but in the pool scene was actually fighting back, with a knife. So Abby's influence has had a permanent change in his confidence and self worth, even after she has gone, and that is what I see as the biggest divergence from the original character, for Owen. I believe Reeves didn't trust his audience to stay sympathetic to Owen if he had just given up in the face of his tormentors. He had to show that Owen had "backbone" and "heart" in order to keep the audience on side ... which is a shame, in a way, because it diminishes Owen's need for Abby, other than her muscle and killing power. I can envisage Owen would continue to grow, without Abby, if it wasn't for the murderous bullies ... Oskar ... not so much.

True, both Owen and Oskar need to be rescued, as they are far from able to protect themselves.
Klesk wrote:
Jameron wrote:You questioned Abby’s nakedness in the bed, but I think you missed something here. When Eli undresses, the camera shows his feet, and only his feet. We see his top hit the floor and then we see his childish “treading down” of his trousers. This is a statement of Eli’s childish non-sexuality. When Abby undresses we are given an out of focus view of the top of her body as she disrobes, it is quite voyeuristic in nature and asks questions of Abby’s sexuality. “Is Abby really as childishly innocent as Eli?”, “Does Abby know that Owen is starting to become aware of sex, and is using her nakedness to fool him?”, “Is Abby manipulative?” These are questions that should really not be asked of this relationship.
You see Eli's arms and her shoulders and it is more than you can see from Abby.
Yes, you see Eli's shoulders when he is in Oskar's bed, but I was talking about when the vampire characters were undressing. Eli's childish lack of sexuality had already been established before he entered Oskar's bed and so his actions in the bed are also innocent.

Once Abby has undressed, we see her naked back as she lies down next to Owen, at this point we are still wondering about her motivations because we just watched her getting undressed in a very voyeuristic way.
Klesk wrote:The message of the scene is in my opinion: It is something special for them, they are very vulnerable (naked) and one of them is still a vampire, it is a very intimate situation and in art naked children are linked with innocence not with (especially not adult) sexuality. This is conveyed in Let the right one in a better way than in Let me In.
Yes, I agree. The point I was making, or at least trying to make, was that showing Abby undressing puts the wrong thoughts into the viewers mind just prior to an important scene that deals with acceptance.
"For a few seconds Oskar saw through Eli’s eyes. And what he saw was … himself. Only much better, more handsome, stronger than what he thought of himself. Seen with love."

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Re: So I Finally Got to Watch LMI too ;)

Post by varamiglite » Mon Aug 18, 2014 1:06 am

Shop men? Are you referring to the clerk? If so that was actually Chloe Moretz' brother, Colin in some serious 80's garb.
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Re: So I Finally Got to Watch LMI too ;)

Post by varamiglite » Mon Aug 18, 2014 2:41 am

After having watched both movies dozens of times each I feel that I can fairly say that they are two completely different movies despite the fact they share the same source material. In my opinion this isn't a bad thing. The main thing you have to know going into either is that Eli isn't Abby, Oskar isn't Owen, etc, etc, and vice versa. The American versions are loosely based on their Swedish counterparts... very, very loosely. I'd like to put in my two cents on them. I'll try to stay within your format. Jameron, I did not read your review yet so I apologize beforehand if we have the exact same views and it appears like I copied. It wasn't intentional.

The bullies...

I thought Kenny was better at being someone I would've been afraid of at twelve years old. I'm sorry but Conny never would've scared me for a second, and I'm not saying that because I was a bada** in school, I wasn't. The other two were just like the LTROI bullies... just tag-alongs trying to be cool. Kenny had more of a reason to be a bully since his brother picked on him in that scene after the ice pond. Kenny was submissive to his brother's bullying so he wanted others to submit to him. He even went as far as to use his brother's lines. Kenny was the better bully. Conny would have been better picking on fourth graders.

Oskar/Owen...

These two are clearly night and day, but again, not a bad thing because the movies are quite different. My issue with both of these characters come down to fragility. Oskar doesn't have enough and Owen has way too much. Oskar seems too tough to be bullied, almost as if he's bored during some of his attacks. I understand choking the pain down and stuff but he does it too well in some aspects. Owen is the opposite and this is also a problem. Owen is a total spaz and a whiner. He refuses to hold his own in any situation. To Owen's credit, he never seemed boring an attack. Oskar was a better psycho than Owen was. Owen seemed to imitate horror movies, poorly acted and overly exaggerating. Oskar seems truly scary and dark as he waves his knife around. Oskar and Owen also handle themselves differently around Eli/Abby. Oskar seems to be more confident at first with asking her questions and telling her off. Owen is timid and nervous, but he's a spaz and Abby sets up her part different too. She isn't very coarse so he isn't either, even in calling her an idiot.

Eli/Abby...

The first major difference to me is that it's quickly clear that Abby is a girl, despite the whole "I'm nothing" speech that doesn't make much sense in LMI. As much as you may want to convince yourself that Abby could have been a boy I just don't find it feasible. Even Owen's reaction when he peeks on her changing says to me that Abby's got girl parts. If she had the scar like Eli had spazzy Owen would've flipped a lid! Abby is also very, umm, capable (let's just use that word) for a twelve year old, more or less, or at least I get the feeling she is/was. She's been around for hundreds of years, she is probably well aware of what kind of men are out there and what they want. She's used that in exchange for what she wants. I believe that Abby has done bad things. The fact that she's dragged Thomas around for the last 40-50 years is indicator of that. Eli (Movie Eli) is quite different. She seems to be a bit more naive. I believe she's still used people to get what she needs, but not in the ways Abby has. Eli seems to be more childish and innocent whereas Abby is pretty aware of what's out there and uses every bit for what she needs.

Romance, etc...

As much as I tried to convince myself otherwise I know now that Let Me In is not meant to be romantic, at least not in the warm fuzzy way. Owen is in puppy love with Abby but Abby is NOT in any kind of love with Owen. She's probably willing to be buddy-buddy with him until he fully takes on Thomas' role, then it's probably all business. I think that's why we're denied that last gaze in the pool scene like there is in LTROI. I think that was done to make the viewers kind of understand that the rescue wasn't completely about love or friendship. People who haven't seen LTROI wouldn't know that scene was missing so maybe I'm wrong there. I think if there was any kind of love story in LMI at all it was a one-sided love/seduction thing. Owen loves Abby and Abby seduces him to make sure she keeps him at bay, although it never becomes super-sexualized seduction. It's more of a teenage seduction. Abby knows that if she holds Owen's hand or this or that she's got him on a string. LTROI is never like that. It is a love story and a story about friendship and all the warm fuzzy things. Eli isn't out to use Oskar. She isn't seducing him. At first she truly knows she cannot be his friend but over time things change and she takes a chance. It's real, it's innocent. It never feels dirty. It's just two banged-up kids who found each other and became friends!

The parents...

I know this wasn't a section in yours but I saw you mention it and I wanted to elaborate. You said Owen had no reason to leave his parents. This is quite false. Owen had every reason to leave his parents. His mother was a drunken religious fanatic and his father was nowhere to be found save for a telephone conversation where it's obvious ole dad's trying to give him the slip. At least Oskar seems like he has a decent mother. Yeah his dad's some piece of work but he could always stop going to his house. In my view Owen had more of a reason to run away than Oskar did when it comes to mommies and daddies.
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Re: So I Finally Got to Watch LMI too ;)

Post by drakkar » Mon Aug 18, 2014 8:40 am

Klesk wrote:I finally watched the movie, too. The reason why it took so long was the fear, that I wouldn't like it. I think the fear was not unjustified. The movie is emotionally “dead land” for me for several reasons.
...
Thanks for the reading. For me, the profound change in the core story was a bit of a turn off, and then the rest didn't really matter that much.
I gues a lot of the differences you mention are due to culture differences in general, and film culture differences in particular. Things are made clearer, details and characters pointed out more.
For example, I found the explicit Abby cgi messy, and creating distance to the caracther, while I suspect the LMI audience found it catchy.

LMI appears more of a horror film, and I subscribe most of the changes to that. LTROI was released as a drama/thriller, and isn't a "horror film" at all. Yes, it has horrific moments, but the film as a whole deserves its drama label.

As a side note, the novel is a horror story, and I think JAL seriously challenges the notion of "horror literature" since his horror stries comes wrapped up in an immense literary quality and profound depth.
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Re: So I Finally Got to Watch LMI too ;)

Post by sauvin » Mon Aug 18, 2014 4:41 pm

drakkar wrote: LMI appears more of a horror film, and I subscribe most of the changes to that. LTROI was released as a drama/thriller, and isn't a "horror film" at all. Yes, it has horrific moments, but the film as a whole deserves its drama label.

As a side note, the novel is a horror story, and I think JAL seriously challenges the notion of "horror literature" since his horror stries comes wrapped up in an immense literary quality and profound depth.
I wonder what Mary Shelly might have made of such a statement if she were to be able to contrast her "modern Prometheus" with (for example) the denizens of the plains of Leng on one side and Freddie Kruger and Jason Vorhees' gang on another against a contemporary backdrop of a progressively more Orwellian daily reality. Where one person sees "drama/thriller", another might see horrific social, political or religious allegory, and who really is there to say that an invented language (for example, Newspeak) is or isn't more terrifying than an axe being wielded by a man in a mask in the night?

What is horror? LTROI falls rather firmly into this territory (for me) not necessarily directly because the cute little munchkin is also a nocturnal land shark. Oskar and Owen's childhoods are a very mundane, very natural and probably depressingly common quiet, low-key horror: unseen because it's ubiquitous, unheard because its victims can't articulate it and undying because the playground after school and the swimming pool when the "adults" are away are scenes where true human nature is exposed in its rawest, most naked and purest form. Abby's vamped-out game face is just a more "in your face" accusation of human two-facedness than is our view of Eli's middle-distance attack on Jocke, and it's possibly for this (or related) reason(s) I find LTROI more intriguing, but LMI somewhat more compelling: LTROI is both subtler and less honest, where LMI seems a bit less concerned with the artifices of cinematic storytelling and a bit more with telling a (more or less) true story.
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Klesk
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Re: So I Finally Got to Watch LMI too ;)

Post by Klesk » Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:52 pm

varamiglite wrote:Shop men? Are you referring to the clerk? If so that was actually Chloe Moretz' brother, Colin in some serious 80's garb.
Yes. Oh, it is her brother! :D
Jameron wrote: At the beginning he was just resisting (a form of fighting back), but in the pool scene was actually fighting back, with a knife. So Abby's influence has had a permanent change in his confidence and self worth, even after she has gone, and that is what I see as the biggest divergence from the original character, for Owen. I believe Reeves didn't trust his audience to stay sympathetic to Owen if he had just given up in the face of his tormentors. He had to show that Owen had "backbone" and "heart" in order to keep the audience on side ... which is a shame, in a way, because it diminishes Owen's need for Abby, other than her muscle and killing power.
In my opinion it is quite different. Owen tries to defend himself with a knife, but shortly he realizes that the bullies are not much impressed by it. Quite the contrary they are amused by his clumsy attempt. Abby's advice to take a knife turns out to be a very bad idea, because Owen is not a killer. He is not able to use the knife. Instead the bullies take his knife and threaten to put his eyes out. At this point he is in the same back-at-square-one Situation like Oscar. He is screaming and whining like at the beginning of the movie.
A creature of the night, that carries the light in itself.

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