So I Finally Got to Watch LMI

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Bloody Mary
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So I Finally Got to Watch LMI

Post by Bloody Mary » Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:44 pm

....And got around to posting what I think.

The problem was that it was a copy of the original, changing details only when they were inconvenient. These changes did not help LMI; they only made it seem to conform to popular and Hollywood standards, while still borrowing as much as it could from the 2008 film. The most gaping alteration removed the best part of LtROI and made it a "monster movie," instead of the love and friendship story it ultimately should have been.

First, MR feminized Abby. While she does tell Oskar that she isn't a girl, she has an obviously girlish name, and the scene with the scar was omitted. Her claim could mean that she doesn't feel that she is a normal girl because she doesn't wear makeup or know how to dress like girls do. She is on the outside of society, unlike most girls her age, who tend to hang around in groups. The movie doesn't really hint that Abby is actually male. This seems to pander to the American fascination with the cute, traditional boy-meets-girl relationship. Here in the US, people wouldn't be able to get used to a genderless half of a relationship. (Eli is male, but he seems to like dressing as a girl, which makes his gender harder to pin down. Americans would find that hard to comprehend, or at least Hollywood thinks so.) Reeves' decision looks like it gives in to popular thinking, and implies that Oskar and Eli's relationship isn't normal enough for mainstream movie fans.

Wasn't LMI supposed to be based on the book, as well as the movie? I don't remember any book scenes included in LMI that weren't also in LtROI. For the most part, the remake didn't come up with anything original or put its own spin on the story; it just edited TA's version. It was set in a snowy, depressing, concrete-looking town, as was LtROI. It included the scene with the candy, and Abby coming to visit Owen after eating the caretaker. The main changes were that Eli was turned into a girl and the setting was the States. I would have liked to see Tommy's blood donation, or Owen setting the desks on fire. The good thing about the similarity is that the banana scene ("No banaaaaanas?") was not stolen. That is my favorite scene in the book. It would have been so irritating if LMI, which is not as good as the original, had included it after LtROI (the film) did not.

Also, this version appeared to support Thesis M, as dongregg called it (the idea that Eli is a Monster who is using Oskar) over Thesis K (that he is just a Kid who wants a friend). Owen finds photos of Abby and the caretaker decades earlier, when the caretaker was about her age. The suggestion that the caretaker used to be just like Owen, and Owen could go down the same road, is clear. Further, the pool scene shows only Abby's blood-spattered feet when she drags Owen out of the pool, instead of her face as LtROI does. Eli's face smiling down at Oskar personalizes the killing, making Eli seem like a protector who saved Oskar because he cared about him. Showing Abby's feet takes away that moment of understanding that she is looking out for Owen as his friend. She is a faceless, detached killer who saved Owen because he is necessary for her survival.

Thesis M ruins the entire story's sweetness. In the center of the murders, bullying scenes, Oskar's broken family, and overall chilly atmosphere, there is Oskar and Eli's devotion to each other. It is the one thing that gives the book and film a feeling of hope. Without it, LtROI is absolutely bleak. Not that every tale has to be a happy one, but twisting their relationship's tenderness into something manipulative and selfish seems evil. I guess that is the worst part about the remake.

Let Me In is just not as good. It's not original like TA's version, or as touching. Musical people can give their opinions on this if they like, but personally, I didn't think the score compared to Johan Soderqvist's compositions for LtROI. LMI was....eh. Thoughts?
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Re: So I Finally Got to Watch LMI

Post by sauvin » Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:00 am

Bloody Mary wrote:... MR feminized Abby. While she does tell Oskar that she isn't a girl, she has an obviously girlish name, and the scene with the scar was omitted. Her claim could mean that she doesn't feel that she is a normal girl because she doesn't wear makeup or know how to dress like girls do. She is on the outside of society, unlike most girls her age, who tend to hang around in groups. The movie doesn't really hint that Abby is actually male. This seems to pander to the American fascination with the cute, traditional boy-meets-girl relationship. Here in the US, people wouldn't be able to get used to a genderless half of a relationship. (Eli is male, but he seems to like dressing as a girl, which makes his gender harder to pin down. Americans would find that hard to comprehend, or at least Hollywood thinks so.) Reeves' decision looks like it gives in to popular thinking, and implies that Oskar and Eli's relationship isn't normal enough for mainstream movie fans.
I wonder how much of this is just "giving in" to how Reeves (may or may not) believes most Americans receive this kind of thing. I have a very strong impression that American sexual topologies (in political terms) tend to be far and away more deeply fissured and tectonically volatile than is the case in European countries; Reeves' veering the story line into more "traditional" venues may have been a simple matter of economic survival: Americans won't buy into something they find repugnant, and LMI was already facing off against a widely acknowledged masterpiece before the first line of its original script had been written. Americans just don't understand genderlessness - this grumpy old man who's lived among them for so many years can state this with absolute confidence.
Bloody Mary wrote:... For the most part, the remake didn't come up with anything original or put its own spin on the story; it just edited TA's version. It was set in a snowy, depressing, concrete-looking town, as was LtROI. It included the scene with the candy, and Abby coming to visit Owen after eating the caretaker.
If you've only seen the movie once, I'd suggest it has its subtleties, just as does the original LTROI. See it a few more times! Maybe you'll see the looser, easier, slinkier and somewhat more insouciant Abby that I saw, by contrast to Eli's quiet and stony watchfulness - and the seemingly more profound resignation as Abby tells Owen as he's leaving her apartment: "I told you we can't be friends".
Bloody Mary wrote:The main changes were that Eli was turned into a girl and the setting was the States.
"I'm burning, I'm burning, I'm burning for you", "I can't see no reason to put up a fight
I'm living for giving the devil his due", "time everlasting, time to play B-sides". But... "do you really want to hurt me? (do you really want to make me cry?)" Yes, Eli was turned into a girl (probably) and the setting was in the States. I've never very wandered far west of the Mississippi, so can't identify too closely with parts of the country the Manhattan Project boys tried to turn into a glass parking lot, but I was in my middle 20's when this film was set. I remember that music, those cars, the video games, all the Star Wars memorabilia, those clothes, those Electronic Church TV shows, and yes, even a President Reagan not finishing the thought "if America ceases to be good...". In a sense, LMI was by far the more accessible.
Bloody Mary wrote:... The suggestion that the caretaker used to be just like Owen, and Owen could go down the same road, is clear. Further, the pool scene shows only Abby's blood-spattered feet when she drags Owen out of the pool, instead of her face as LtROI does. ... She is a faceless, detached killer who saved Owen because he is necessary for her survival.
Dunno about thoughts, but I do have a question, if people can pardon that I quote myself rather than typing it all out anew.
Bloody Mary wrote: ...In the center of the murders, bullying scenes, Oskar's broken family, and overall chilly atmosphere, there is Oskar and Eli's devotion to each other. It is the one thing that gives the book and film a feeling of hope. Without it, LtROI is absolutely bleak. Not that every tale has to be a happy one, but twisting their relationship's tenderness into something manipulative and selfish seems evil. I guess that is the worst part about the remake.
According to those who include the story (that I still haven't read) from 'Let the Old Dreams Die", yes, the future for Oskar and Eli does seem promising at first glance. Since the spans of their lives are now so preternaturally lengthened, Townsend's (Rice's) Lestat's observation that "immortality seems like a good idea, until you realize you're going to spend it alone" is no longer germane - but the two kids are now locked together into eternal prepubescence, which largely also means locked into a pattern of interminable stretches of unbearable boredom at a time of life where there's almost no need more imperative than a constant stream of new and different stimuli. There are only so many board and card games to play, so many movies to watch, so many stories or jokes to tell before a dull familiarity sets in. In other words, after the newness of their bond has worn off... now what? They can't even experience the changes in outlook that accrues normally with successive birthdays.

LMI is, on the other hand, an exploration of what life may be like when the human partner remains human. This, TA seems to be saying, is what life is like when you've married too young and remained married far too long. This is what falling in love looks like 40 years afterwards.
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Re: So I Finally Got to Watch LMI

Post by dongregg » Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:08 am

sauvin wrote:I have a very strong impression that American sexual topologies (in political terms) tend to be far and away more deeply fissured and tectonically volatile than is the case in European countries; Reeves' veering the story line into more "traditional" venues may have been a simple matter of economic survival: Americans won't buy into something they find repugnant, and LMI was already facing off against a widely acknowledged masterpiece before the first line of its original script had been written. Americans just don't understand genderlessness - this grumpy old man who's lived among them for so many years can state this with absolute confidence.
Every year, I challenge my Human Growth and Development students to look around the classroom and explain the evident gender polarity (based on their clothing choices) in light of what we know about sexual preference being part of a continuum. Each person is at a unique place somewhere between one pole and the other, but their clothing choices generally reflect polarization. My travels in Europe and Asia--and among various cultures in America--strongly suggest that the polarization of sexual preference is at least in part a cultural phenomenon. Americans can be downright brutal about how it is "natural" to be completely at one pole or the other even though what is natural is to be wherever you are on the continuum. I guess we could also add a dimension of intensity to the discussion--some people could be "genderless" by way of having no interest in sexuality. That is, sexual preference plays little or no part in their self-image.

Not completely sure about the box office threat, although there is no doubt something to it. However, Torch Song Trilogy and Brokeback Mountain come to mind...
“For drama to deepen, we must see the loneliness of the monster and the cunning of the innocent.”

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Re: So I Finally Got to Watch LMI

Post by metoo » Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:09 am

sauvin wrote:According to those who include the story (that I still haven't read) from 'Let the Old Dreams Die", yes, the future for Oskar and Eli does seem promising at first glance.
Being one of those who has read Let the Old Dreams Die, I think I'd like to comment. My view isn't as simple as the future of O&E being "promising". In fact, it is stark and rather horrible. But what LtROI (the novel) has as at its very foundation and LtROI (the film) keeps, is a promise that there is a friend to find for everybody. You just have to let him (or her) in. Unfortunately and unnecessarily this idea is replaced in LMI with the one of Owen being the next Thomas. Neither Owen nor Abby finds a true friend. Abby from the start knows what Owen's future will become if he goes with her, and perhaps her objective is to achieve precisely that. Owen can't be her friend, and won't be.

And, sauvin, all about LTODD you need to know is this:
The story is about two people, one of whom tells the narrator that he checked Oskar Eriksson's ticket at the train and later that day observed Oskar and a dark-haired girl of similar age mixing blood at the railway station in Karlstad. At the end of the story the narrator goes to visit his friends, only to find an empty house. On a table he finds a picture of a happy family on vacation in Barcelona, taken in 2008. Behind the family are two people visible: Oskar Eriksson, still a child, and with him a dark-haired girl.
But from the beginning Eli was just Eli. Nothing. Anything. And he is still a mystery to me. John Ajvide Lindqvist

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Re: So I Finally Got to Watch LMI

Post by dongregg » Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:22 am

metoo wrote:...And, sauvin, all about LTODD you need to know is this:
The story is about two people, one of whom tells the narrator that he checked Oskar Eriksson's ticket at the train and later that day observed Oskar and a dark-haired girl of similar age mixing blood at the railway station in Karlstad. At the end of the story the narrator goes to visit his friends, only to find an empty house. On a table he finds a picture of a happy family on vacation in Barcelona, taken in 2008. Behind the family are two people visible: Oskar Eriksson, still a child, and with him a dark-haired girl.
But, sauvin, you might be pleased to also know that it is a great little story--very well written and heart-warming in a way that LTROI is heart-warming.
“For drama to deepen, we must see the loneliness of the monster and the cunning of the innocent.”

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Re: So I Finally Got to Watch LMI

Post by metoo » Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:14 am

dongregg wrote:But, sauvin, you might be pleased to also know that it is a great little story--very well written and heart-warming in a way that LTROI is heart-warming.
Yes, indeed. I should have added that. But regarding Oskar's and Eli's future after LtROI, there isn't more than what I wrote.
But from the beginning Eli was just Eli. Nothing. Anything. And he is still a mystery to me. John Ajvide Lindqvist

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Re: So I Finally Got to Watch LMI

Post by EEA » Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:47 am

To me LTODD fills Eli and Oskar's future with uncertainty. For how long will they stay together? I like the ending to the book, it was to me a happy ending just like the ending of the movie is. Even though it is a good story I feel that after I read it I felt a sense of lost.
At least Owen knows what to expect if he stays with Abby. And LMI did add some material I like. The including of Romeo and Juliet and the scene were Owen is telling Abby how he feels about living in the town.

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Re: So I Finally Got to Watch LMI

Post by sauvin » Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:54 am

metoo wrote:... what LtROI (the novel) has as at its very foundation and LtROI (the film) keeps, is a promise that there is a friend to find for everybody. You just have to let him (or her) in. Unfortunately and unnecessarily this idea is replaced in LMI with the one of Owen being the next Thomas. Neither Owen nor Abby finds a true friend. Abby from the start knows what Owen's future will become if he goes with her, and perhaps her objective is to achieve precisely that. Owen can't be her friend, and won't be.
I think this view is a bit simplistic.

LMI remains true to the LTROI story in being about a developing relationship. If it turns out badly in the coming decades for the principals, such is life for most of us earthbound schmucks. There's nothing in the movie to offer as convincing evidence that it's just some kind of elaborate recruitment effort on Abby's part. If the resignation seen as she tells him the second time they can't be friends is operative, hers may well be the far more tragic story than his, or Thomas'.

The only real difference between Abby and Owen (and possibly between Abby and Eli) is that while they're on the same train riding the same tracks towards the same setting sun, Owen can afford to believe there'll still be candy and games in his near future - and at that age, the only future there is is the "near" future. He can't know he's being railroaded, by Abby, by fate or by massive social inertia, so he doesn't know to dread what tomorrow might bring. After all... when you're twelve, 40something is a very long ways off, a whole eternity separating himself from what little he might have glimpsed of the life Thomas had endured.

It's worse for Abby, particularly if she's been through more than a single Thomas Cycle (tm): she knows how this kind of thing is apt to turn out, probably knows it'd be best for Owen if she'd just disappear into the night and leave Owen to his own devices, but... well... an adolescing girl gets lonely, you know? She, too, is being railroaded, by exactly the same massive social pressures that expelled Owen, by fate and by her inability to do what's needed to find release from her unusual illness. If she loves, then she's bound to know she's once again going to be forced to watch love die slowly.

I don't know that "unfortunately and unnecessarily" are adverbs I'd attach to the LMI story; LTROI does indeed "promise" there's a friend for everybody (if you'll just let him, her or "it" in), but it doesn't ask the question "... but will you still love me tomorrow?"
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Re: So I Finally Got to Watch LMI

Post by metoo » Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:43 am

sauvin wrote:
metoo wrote:... what LtROI (the novel) has as at its very foundation and LtROI (the film) keeps, is a promise that there is a friend to find for everybody. You just have to let him (or her) in. Unfortunately and unnecessarily this idea is replaced in LMI with the one of Owen being the next Thomas. Neither Owen nor Abby finds a true friend. Abby from the start knows what Owen's future will become if he goes with her, and perhaps her objective is to achieve precisely that. Owen can't be her friend, and won't be.
I think this view is a bit simplistic.

LMI remains true to the LTROI story in being about a developing relationship. If it turns out badly in the coming decades for the principals, such is life for most of us earthbound schmucks. There's nothing in the movie to offer as convincing evidence that it's just some kind of elaborate recruitment effort on Abby's part. If the resignation seen as she tells him the second time they can't be friends is operative, hers may well be the far more tragic story than his, or Thomas'.

The only real difference between Abby and Owen (and possibly between Abby and Eli) is that while they're on the same train riding the same tracks towards the same setting sun, Owen can afford to believe there'll still be candy and games in his near future - and at that age, the only future there is is the "near" future. He can't know he's being railroaded, by Abby, by fate or by massive social inertia, so he doesn't know to dread what tomorrow might bring. After all... when you're twelve, 40something is a very long ways off, a whole eternity separating himself from what little he might have glimpsed of the life Thomas had endured.

It's worse for Abby, particularly if she's been through more than a single Thomas Cycle (tm): she knows how this kind of thing is apt to turn out, probably knows it'd be best for Owen if she'd just disappear into the night and leave Owen to his own devices, but... well... an adolescing girl gets lonely, you know? She, too, is being railroaded, by exactly the same massive social pressures that expelled Owen, by fate and by her inability to do what's needed to find release from her unusual illness. If she loves, then she's bound to know she's once again going to be forced to watch love die slowly.

I don't know that "unfortunately and unnecessarily" are adverbs I'd attach to the LMI story; LTROI does indeed "promise" there's a friend for everybody (if you'll just let him, her or "it" in), but it doesn't ask the question "... but will you still love me tomorrow?"
What I view as unfortunate and unnecessary is the inclusion of the photo strip. This is a flirt with the view that in LtROI, Håkan is the previous Oskar, and that Eli manipulates Oskar into becoming the next Håkan. The addition of the photo strip and its baggage of ideas, to me, completely changes the foundation of the story. The scenes are the same in both films, but the promise of LtROI is lost in LMI. Unfortunately and unnecessarily, since I'm sure LMI is a good film, too. Apparently, JAL felt something similar, since he wrote and published LtODD.
But from the beginning Eli was just Eli. Nothing. Anything. And he is still a mystery to me. John Ajvide Lindqvist

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Re: So I Finally Got to Watch LMI

Post by a_contemplative_life » Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:50 pm

I basically agree with Bloody Mary's assessment of LMI. One can readily imagine Lina's Eli giving Oskar the "kiss seen with love" under the balcony, described in the novel. One has a harder time seeing Abby give that kiss to Owen.
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