Let the Right One In vs. Let Me In

For discussion of Matt Reeve's Film Let Me In

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sauvin
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Re: Let the Right One In vs. Let Me In

Post by sauvin » Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:18 pm

lombano wrote:
sauvin wrote: I saw sexual implication in the LTROI bedroom scene, but no sex or sexuality.
Could you elaborate?

I didn't see anything sexual in either bed scene - even though when Abby and Owen go out together I saw two adolescents dating, while when Oskar and Eli go out together I saw two children playing.
A very good friend tells me that children living in kibbutzim showered, boys and girls all together, until they reached a certain age. There was nothing sexual in soaping each others' backs, either, but it had sexual implication: when these children reached marriageable age, they tended not to choose partners they'd showered with. I suspect it would have been too much like some kind of incest, even though most of the children sharing communal showers were not related by blood or marriage.

In the US, children do not do this. I don't remember ever sharing a shower, tub or bed with my sister (five years younger), although I understand that in other families, it's common for toddlers and tots. Once having reached a certain age, maybe seven or eight, children bathe separately and sleep alone. The American bed is thoroughly sexualised, and people beyond a certain age sharing a bed are often presumed to be sharing something beyond a few snores.

When the bedroom scene is shown in an American theater or living room, it'll be seen through the lenses of American culture, particular with respect to taboos. A twelve year old girl stripping down to nothing and jumping into the sack with a twelve year old boy who's wearing only briefs is just about as scandalous an image as an American can sustain without boiling over with indignation. Swedish forum members' assuring us that this kind of thing is fairly common - and "innocent" - in Sweden wouldn't mean anything to an American audience.

It might have been interesting to get impressions from representatives of other major cultural spheres around the world - how do Chinese people, for example, see such a girl jumping into bed with such a boy? Eastern European? African?

We can tell Americans to shut up, sit still and let the movie keep rolling during the bedroom scene right up until Oskar asks if he has a chance with her, and she props herself up on an elbow with - what? Alarm? Concern? It's really hard to say, precisely, but it's not hard to guess what the first thought to cross her might might have been. Now, we have outright sexual implication, even if only by indirect allusion.

The statement that the kids are too young to Go There (tm) is probabilistic at best. I offer my own bad self as a case in point, having been Going There and having to hide some of the laundry since no later than the fourth grade (say, eight or nine), and have heard some of the other guys admitting to something similar. Oskar may or may not be too young to know there's a There to Go to, and may or may not be too young to have already taken that trip a few hundred times. He's certainly not too young to have a peek at his girlfriend's body as she's changing into something clean.

The statement that the kids are too young to Go There (tm) in Eli's case seems not probabilistic at all. Her reaction was immediate, and her Three Questions were very pointed. What saved the scene, and very likely the whole story, is Oskar's innocently being concerned with something else. He wasn't concerned with Going There, at least not primarily, so much as wanting some kind of assurance that he'd have somebody to go places with. Eli's very pointy questions very strongly imply she's Gone There (or, as seems more likely, Been Taken There) at least once in the past, and doesn't particularly relish the prospect.

After Oskar has gotten the promise he wanted (a frank statement of friendship and alliance) and drifted back off to sleep, Eli shows a very definite capacity for simple physical affection. She strokes his shoulder and arm, working her way down to his hand, which she grasps and holds. After Lacke's death, she encircles him with her arms, puts her head on his shoulder and thanks him for her life. These scenes betray the wooden alien Oskar hugged behind the kiosk and in his living room: Eli has a very human understanding of simple physical affection.

It can be argued that Eli has no understanding of sensuality, since she has nothing to be sensual with in a sexual sense. Granted, she may very well on occasion experience a Sybaritic pleasure in guzzling down a fresh, hot meal when she's gone too long without eating, and one can certainly hope she can appreciate a long, hot shower the way we do, but if the kids continue to snuggle as shown in the bedroom scene as Oskar continues to grow physically, the physical affection Oskar gives or returns almost certainly will have a component to it that "transcends" simple affection.

And so, yes, I saw sexual implication, even if I saw no sex or sexuality, and some of the implication I saw is conflict.
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Daniel Ether
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Re: Let the Right One In vs. Let Me In

Post by Daniel Ether » Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:54 pm

sauvin wrote:A very good friend tells me that children living in kibbutzim showered, boys and girls all together, until they reached a certain age. There was nothing sexual in soaping each others' backs, either, but it had sexual implication: when these children reached marriageable age, they tended not to choose partners they'd showered with. I suspect it would have been too much like some kind of incest, even though most of the children sharing communal showers were not related by blood or marriage.

In the US, children do not do this. I don't remember ever sharing a shower, tub or bed with my sister (five years younger), although I understand that in other families, it's common for toddlers and tots. Once having reached a certain age, maybe seven or eight, children bathe separately and sleep alone. The American bed is thoroughly sexualised, and people beyond a certain age sharing a bed are often presumed to be sharing something beyond a few snores.

When the bedroom scene is shown in an American theater or living room, it'll be seen through the lenses of American culture, particular with respect to taboos. A twelve year old girl stripping down to nothing and jumping into the sack with a twelve year old boy who's wearing only briefs is just about as scandalous an image as an American can sustain without boiling over with indignation. Swedish forum members' assuring us that this kind of thing is fairly common - and "innocent" - in Sweden wouldn't mean anything to an American audience.

It might have been interesting to get impressions from representatives of other major cultural spheres around the world - how do Chinese people, for example, see such a girl jumping into bed with such a boy? Eastern European? African?
Maybe it doesn't fit in the disscusion quite well, but you may find it interessting... I heard quite a interessting, similar discusion between two friends of mine and a few stutends from spain and portugal. it was about the bathing scene in "my neighbor totoro" where you can see a japanes father takeing a bath toghter with his two small daughters. it may sound strange to western peopl but its very normal for japanese people in the cultural and temporal aspect. and its also a very inocent and on some point funny scene when the father tries to calm down his daughters cause they are afraid of a hausgeist (sorry dont know the english word :D ) I also read in some internet articles that it was very discused by many and some parents in europa and the usa even refused to let their kids see this movie because of the bathing scene :| So i also think the cultural and temporal aspect is very important when such things are discussed
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Re: Let the Right One In vs. Let Me In

Post by RapeSoul » Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:01 am

CyberGhostface wrote:
sauvin wrote:So it's the familiarity that breeds the contempt?
It didn't help.
Would your level of enjoyment changed if the older version never existed.
I don't know. What I liked in LTROI wasn't present in LMI so while my reaction may not have been as strong, I might have been "Eh, okay". I mean for example the pool scene in the Swedish film is just perfect; it's beautiful, morbid and kind of funny. The American film is just grisly.
But but but they made an error when Oskar was being held underwater. Jimmy's hand didn't make sense. The prop hand was turned the other way, and then when Oskar was underwater for a minute he didn't seem like he was really running out of breath, you barely get aany sense of danger. Then Kare's bad acting was kind of obvious in that scene :/ It's supposed to be grisly, I also thought it was quite beautiful actually.
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Re: Let the Right One In vs. Let Me In

Post by drakkar » Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:56 am

RapeSoul wrote:But but but they made an error when Oskar was being held underwater. Jimmy's hand didn't make sense. The prop hand was turned the other way, and then when Oskar was underwater for a minute he didn't seem like he was really running out of breath, you barely get aany sense of danger. Then Kare's bad acting was kind of obvious in that scene :/ It's supposed to be grisly, I also thought it was quite beautiful actually.
The pool scene in LTROI was "just perfect" because it was so iconic and dreamlike, standing out from the realistic feel of rest of the film. Kåre's acting was part of creating this masterpiece!
Btw, imo the biggest factual error was not Jimmys hand turning the wrong way (it is possible to do, after all), it was Martins kicking legs going straight trough the arm like it was not connected to the rest of the body (it was bitten off just afterwards). But it doesn't matter - what a beautiful scene. :wub:
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Re: Let the Right One In vs. Let Me In

Post by RapeSoul » Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:45 pm

drakkar wrote:
RapeSoul wrote:But but but they made an error when Oskar was being held underwater. Jimmy's hand didn't make sense. The prop hand was turned the other way, and then when Oskar was underwater for a minute he didn't seem like he was really running out of breath, you barely get aany sense of danger. Then Kare's bad acting was kind of obvious in that scene :/ It's supposed to be grisly, I also thought it was quite beautiful actually.
The pool scene in LTROI was "just perfect" because it was so iconic and dreamlike, standing out from the realistic feel of rest of the film. Kåre's acting was part of creating this masterpiece!
Btw, imo the biggest factual error was not Jimmys hand turning the wrong way (it is possible to do, after all), it was Martins kicking legs going straight trough the arm like it was not connected to the rest of the body (it was bitten off just afterwards). But it doesn't matter - what a beautiful scene. :wub:
I don't see it as better than the same scene in Let Me In, I really really liked how they showed Eli's face with the blood on it though. I watched LTROI last night and I didn't notice that :o I didn't like Kare's acting much :/ he wasn't very emotive, Lina was fantastic though!
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Re: Let the Right One In vs. Let Me In

Post by drakkar » Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:26 pm

I guess it's down to personal taste. What happened in reality (the book :mrgreen: ) probably was closer to the pool scene in LMI, and also the poolhouse size. But. In the book Oskar gradually leaves the world, and this is beautifully captured in the dreamlike pool showdown in the LTROI film, imo.
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Re: Let the Right One In vs. Let Me In

Post by Jameron » Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:31 pm

RapeSoul wrote:I didn't like Kare's acting much :/ he wasn't very emotive
But isn't this exactly what happens to bullied kids? They withdraw within themselves, they shut down their emotions so that they don't feel the terror of their situation. They have no lows, but they also have no highs, this is the definition of depressed. He wasn't a happy kid that was struggling against some bullies, he had been broken by the bullies. Kåre's Oskar fitted with the character.
"For a few seconds Oskar saw through Eli’s eyes. And what he saw was … himself. Only much better, more handsome, stronger than what he thought of himself. Seen with love."

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Re: Let the Right One In vs. Let Me In

Post by CyberGhostface » Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:53 pm

RapeSoul wrote:
CyberGhostface wrote:
sauvin wrote:So it's the familiarity that breeds the contempt?
It didn't help.
Would your level of enjoyment changed if the older version never existed.
I don't know. What I liked in LTROI wasn't present in LMI so while my reaction may not have been as strong, I might have been "Eh, okay". I mean for example the pool scene in the Swedish film is just perfect; it's beautiful, morbid and kind of funny. The American film is just grisly.
But but but they made an error when Oskar was being held underwater. Jimmy's hand didn't make sense. The prop hand was turned the other way, and then when Oskar was underwater for a minute he didn't seem like he was really running out of breath, you barely get aany sense of danger. Then Kare's bad acting was kind of obvious in that scene :/ It's supposed to be grisly, I also thought it was quite beautiful actually.
"Errors" like that I don't notice or care about. If they fixed the scene I probably wouldn't like it as much. The dreamlike quality in contrast to the carnage is what makes it work.

There's nothing beautiful about LMI's scene in comparison -- it's loud, we have body parts flying straight into the camera, blood everywhere, etc.
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Re: Let the Right One In vs. Let Me In

Post by seigezunt » Fri Nov 07, 2014 4:22 pm

I've been wondering if I should see LMI.

These comparisons have kind of convinced me not to. I think I fell in love with LTROI primarily for the sort of reserve and nuance that, judging from the examples given, LMI seems to lack.

I may see it, but probably more when I'm extremely hungry for ANYTHING vaguely related to LTROI.
"She can fly, she has amazing and horrifying powers, she isn’t exactly a boy or a girl, she can’t come inside unless she’s invited ... and she loves him. That’s enough."

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Re: Let the Right One In vs. Let Me In

Post by drakkar » Fri Nov 07, 2014 8:14 pm

Why not? Even if LMI is lacking quit much in some areas, Imho, it doesn't harm to watch it. And remember, even if I don't approve of it, JAL did.
For the heart life is simple. It beats as long as it can.
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