Is Owen worried about going to hell?

[cmfireflies]

\With all this talk about Reeves changing the setting to be more American and all the religious imagery in Owen's home, I wonder if Owen was worried about going to hell after closing the door the cop. I always that that his "do you think there's such a thing as evil?" question was more about his concern about the condition of his soul after finding out Abby is basically what his mom would consider a demon. So there might be a part of him that thinks he attracted Abby to him with his sinful behavior and must feel that his attraction to her wouldn't bode well for his chances in the afterlife. And he wouldn't be necessarily wrong either: Abby could easily be seen as a corrupting influence. Owen goes from being a lonely boy who's biggest crime is stealing candy and peeking on neighbors to someone who shuts the door on a dying man. A man that meant Abby no harm, even. But I don't see Owen feeling guilty afterwards. Sad, that Abby has to leave, shocked at what Abby really does, but not guilty.

The reason that LtROI didn't have this corrupting dimension is because Lacke came with the intent of killing Eli. Oskar waved the knife with the intent of protecting her. If anything, Oskar drops the knife and renounces violence when faced with cold reality of it, so Eli saves him from his fantasies. Oskar could accept the bloody kiss with a clean conscience because even if he had killed Lacke, it was justifiable. However, the cop didn't come in with the intention of killing Abby. It is at least conceivable that he would have forgotten all about the window, after turning to see Owen. He didn't have to die immediately and Owen played a more active part in his death than Oskar did. The kiss would have meant something different for Owen: with at least a little bit of "this man died because of me and now his blood is on my mouth" instead of Oskar who can reasonably think: Eli still likes me even though I didn't really do anything to protect her with my knife and now she has to go away.

There should have been guilt and fear, mixed with sadness that was unique to Owen. Oskar can be sad that his best friend is going away. He might even realize that sticking a knife into a living person is not something he really wanted to do, but Owen, man, his friend is going away, but he also FOUND OUT THAT HE WAS LITERALLY CAPABLE OF MURDER. Coupled with his religious upbringing wouldn't this raise the possibility of going to hell in Owen's mind? The existence of hell being something that Abby's existence tends to reinforce? C'mon Reeves, you don't move the movie to a more religious setting and not deal with guilt.

[sauvin]

With all this talk about Reeves changing the setting to be more American and all the religious imagery in Owen's home,

How much did he buy into it, though? It sounded to me like the very first time he ever gave the concepts of good and evil anything more sincere than lip service was when he tried to ask his mother about it (but she either sleeping or in a coma) and his father (who promptly jumped onto his divorce game warhorse). "Do you think there's such thing as evil?" A boy who grew up not just surrounded by religious imagery but actually believing in it, even if only partially or tangentially, would have already known the answer to this question.

I wonder if Owen was worried about going to [deleted] after closing the door the cop. I always that that his "do you think there's such a thing as evil?" question was more about his concern about the condition of his soul after finding out Abby is basically what his mom would consider a demon.

So why didn't he start worrying about it when he himself knew she was a demon?

Owen goes from being a lonely boy who's biggest crime is stealing candy and peeking on neighbors to someone who shuts the door on a dying man. A man that meant Abby no harm, even. But I don't see Owen feeling guilty afterwards. Sad, that Abby has to leave, shocked at what Abby really does, but not guilty.

Which suggests that he is himself estranged from the traditional sense of right and wrong. Gee, I wonder why? Long, boring rant cut to the essence: if a society doesn't want little boys growing up able to evade guilty feelings after not having prevented murder, society really shouldn't turn its back on them.

The reason that LtROI didn't have this corrupting dimension is because Lacke came with the intent of killing Eli. Oskar waved the knife with the intent of protecting her. If anything, Oskar drops the knife and renounces violence when faced with cold reality of it, so Eli saves him from his fantasies. Oskar could accept the bloody kiss with a clean conscience because even if he had killed Lacke, it was justifiable.

I don't do "justifiable". The word has almost the same meaning as "rationalisable". If Eli wanted to live, Lacke had to die, and the only moral consideration here is pitting the value of the life of a dissolute stewbum against that of a serial murderess with the extenuation that Lacke is a stranger, whereas Oskar loves Eli beyond our ability to describe with words.

However, the cop didn't come in with the intention of killing Abby. It is at least conceivable that he would have forgotten all about the window, after turning to see Owen. He didn't have to die immediately and Owen played a more active part in his death than Oskar did.

"Are you a satanist? Are you part of some kind of cult?" And if he'd been as alert and as ready for action as it's humanly possible to be (with mere tenths of a second reaction time possible), can any of us say Abby could survive a bullet to the brain if she'd shown her game face and terrified the poor cop out of his wits? Even if we could, could Owen? Could Abby? Would they want to gamble?

And maybe what woke up in that tub wasn't Abby. Maybe it was the beast. Maybe it's always the beast that wakes up first, before fading back aft when it decides there's no immediate danger.

Owen played exactly the same role in the cop's death as Oskar did in Lacke's. I'm not aware of any substantial difference.

The kiss would have meant something different for Owen: with at least a little bit of "this man died because of me and now his blood is on my mouth" instead of Oskar who can reasonably think: Eli still likes me even though I didn't really do anything to protect her with my knife and now she has to go away.

Did you check out Owen's face as he was closing the door? Here's another tribute to Smit-McPhee's acting ability, because just like what I saw at the pool, here I saw all kinds of different things in his eyes. The poor boy had no idea what to think; he might not have been thinking at all. Oskar scarcely fared any better - when he moved away, he looked like he was desperately trying not to hurl.

It could be reasonably argued that neither boy was thinking at all during the kiss scene.

There should have been guilt and fear, mixed with sadness that was unique to Owen. Oskar can be sad that his best friend is going away. He might even realize that sticking a knife into a living person is not something he really wanted to do, but Owen, man, his friend is going away, but he also FOUND OUT THAT HE WAS LITERALLY CAPABLE OF MURDER.

What either boy found out was that he was capable of tolerating murder, even of participating in a passive capacity. I don't remember anything supporting a stronger position.

Coupled with his religious upbringing wouldn't this raise the possibility of going to [deleted] in Owen's mind? The existence of [deleted] being something that Abby's existence tends to reinforce? C'mon Reeves, you don't move the movie to a more religious setting and not deal with guilt.

Or maybe Reeves is making the statement that religion has lost its power to terrorise.

Edit: 5 Novembre 2011, replaced a "bad word" with [deleted] to comply with renewed restrictions on language.

Edit: 5 Novembre 2011, replaced a "bad word" with [deleted] to comply with renewed restrictions on language.

Edit: 5 Novembre 2011, replaced a "bad word" with [deleted] to comply with renewed restrictions on language.

Edit: 5 Novembre 2011, replaced a "bad word" with [deleted] to comply with renewed restrictions on language.

[cmfireflies]

Owen played exactly the same role in the cop's death as Oskar did in Lacke's. I'm not aware of any substantial difference.

I don't know, in the film version of LtROI, I don't think Oskar met Lacke before his death, but the cop paid Owen a visit. And while Oskar quickly made himself scarce while Eli was doing the deed, Owen stayed to watch, (harkening back to his voyeurism?) He responded to Thomas's last gasp by closing the door. I agree that he may have been scared out of his mind, but what about afterwards? Regarding the deaths of their perspective strangers, Oskar ran away, he didn't look, the door wasn't even closed, (in the film) Owen acted much more like novel Oskar, he made a choice, and no matter what mental condition he was in when he made it, there is a consequence to choosing, if only in the form of self-knowledge later on.

I'm not saying that it was a wrong choice, or even an immoral one, but I am saying that when Abby was killing, Owen deliberately choose to help in a tiny, tiny bit. That, plus his exposure to his mom's religion should have brought on some guilt, which I didn't see.

Did you check out Owen's face as he was closing the door? Here's another tribute to Smit-McPhee's acting ability, because just like what I saw at the pool, here I saw all kinds of different things in his eyes. The poor boy had no idea what to think; he might not have been thinking at all. Oskar scarcely fared any better - when he moved away, he looked like he was desperately trying not to hurl.

you say that Owen couldn't think as he closed the door. Fair enough, but couldn't he make the opposite choice unthinkingly as well? What about a futile attempt to pull the beast away from the dying cop? Would be stupid, very dangerous, and pointless, but Owen wasn't thinking. I kinda think that it was a moment of truth. Acting without thinking, doesn't that reveal his true nature? Even if it doesn't what does Owen think of his actions looking back? It certainly wasn't a neutral act. And isn't the movie big on its division between light and darkness? In context, I'm just curious how Owen would start rationalizing his decision to help Abby.

How much did he buy into it, though? It sounded to me like the very first time he ever gave the concepts of good and evil anything more sincere than lip service was when he tried to ask his mother about it (but she either sleeping or in a coma) and his father (who promptly jumped onto his divorce game warhorse). "Do you think there's such thing as evil?" A boy who grew up not just surrounded by religious imagery but actually believing in it, even if only partially or tangentially, would have already known the answer to this question.

This is what i mean. I don't think Owen paid much attention to his mom before Abby, or to Reagan's speeches for that matter. But wouldn't meeting the supernatural prod a re-examination of such things? He may not have believed (in fact there is every indication he didn't) But if you were to meet a demon wouldn't you give more thought to god? If only because it's a choice between Buffy or the Bible as your guide in this new world where vampire exists. These are American questions. A non-American way to deal with vampires is shown by the Oskar's "I don't kill people." Straight to the meat of the matter. Vampires existing is only troublesome because of the killing. Owen's mom, I would imagine would see Abby/Eli's existence as a sign of the Apocalypse or something.

[sauvin]

Did you check out Owen's face as he was closing the door? Here's another tribute to Smit-McPhee's acting ability, because just like what I saw at the pool, here I saw all kinds of different things in his eyes. The poor boy had no idea what to think; he might not have been thinking at all. Oskar scarcely fared any better - when he moved away, he looked like he was desperately trying not to hurl.

you say that Owen couldn't think as he closed the door. Fair enough, but couldn't he make the opposite choice unthinkingly as well? What about a futile attempt to pull the beast away from the dying cop? Would be stupid, very dangerous, and pointless, but Owen wasn't thinking. I kinda think that it was a moment of truth. Acting without thinking, doesn't that reveal his true nature? Even if it doesn't what does Owen think of his actions looking back? It certainly wasn't a neutral act. And isn't the movie big on its division between light and darkness? In context, I'm just curious how Owen would start rationalizing his decision to help Abby.

The doodoo was hitting the fan, and it was splattering everywhere, and it was doing it FAST. Did Owen make a choice? Yes, he did. Did he know the cop? Only an American would say "Yea, I know him" after having seen his face for all of maybe ten seconds before being relegated to his room; for Owen, the cop didn't even have a name. In practical effect, you could say that Owen was forced to make a choice, and he did - he chose not to interfere with Abby's killing the cop because at some level he must have sensed that the cop was a threat.

Remember, the cop represents Institution, and this is one thing Owen has learned not to trust. Abby represents whatever you care to name as the opposite to Institution, and it had been very kind to him.

Methinks maybe "rationalisation" isn't much needed in Owen's mind.

How much did he buy into it, though? It sounded to me like the very first time he ever gave the concepts of good and evil anything more sincere than lip service was when he tried to ask his mother about it (but she either sleeping or in a coma) and his father (who promptly jumped onto his divorce game warhorse). "Do you think there's such thing as evil?" A boy who grew up not just surrounded by religious imagery but actually believing in it, even if only partially or tangentially, would have already known the answer to this question.

This is what i mean. I don't think Owen paid much attention to his mom before Abby, or to Reagan's speeches for that matter. But wouldn't meeting the supernatural prod a re-examination of such things? He may not have believed (in fact there is every indication he didn't) But if you were to meet a demon wouldn't you give more thought to god? If only because it's a choice between Buffy or the Bible as your guide in this new world where vampire exists. These are American questions. A non-American way to deal with vampires is shown by the Oskar's "I don't kill people." Straight to the meat of the matter. Vampires existing is only troublesome because of the killing. Owen's mom, I would imagine would see Abby/Eli's existence as a sign of the Apocalypse or something.

And if you were to meet a demon after having watched way too much Star Wars, maybe you'd be thinking more in terms of "OK, you're not completely human, are you? Maybe you're from Aldebaran? Sorry about what that scuba-breathing freak did to your homeworld..."

I've been thinking a great deal about the Star Wars motif in his bedroom, and am thinking maybe much of what he saw in those movies may have influenced his views where "right" and "wrong" are concerned more than anything his mother might have tried to tell him in a well-pickled haze.

As for it being "very American" not to get to the meat of the matter, do try to remember that Scandinavians aren't French.

Edit: 5 Novembre 2011, replaced a "bad word" with [deleted] to comply with renewed restrictions on language.

[lombano]

The reason that LtROI didn't have this corrupting dimension is because Lacke came with the intent of killing Eli. Oskar waved the knife with the intent of protecting her. If anything, Oskar drops the knife and renounces violence when faced with cold reality of it, so Eli saves him from his fantasies. Oskar could accept the bloody kiss with a clean conscience because even if he had killed Lacke, it was justifiable.

I don't do "justifiable". The word has almost the same meaning as "rationalisable". If Eli wanted to live, Lacke had to die, and the only moral consideration here is pitting the value of the life of a dissolute stewbum against that of a serial murderess with the extenuation that Lacke is a stranger, whereas Oskar loves Eli beyond our ability to describe with words.

Almost, but... no. Lacke was trying to kill Eli, he wasn't a random innocent victim like Virginia. Killing him was self-defence against deliberate attempted murder. Killing the cop wasn't.

Did you check out Owen's face as he was closing the door? Here's another tribute to Smit-McPhee's acting ability, because just like what I saw at the pool, here I saw all kinds of different things in his eyes. The poor boy had no idea what to think; he might not have been thinking at all. Oskar scarcely fared any better - when he moved away, he looked like he was desperately trying not to hurl.

you say that Owen couldn't think as he closed the door. Fair enough, but couldn't he make the opposite choice unthinkingly as well? What about a futile attempt to pull the beast away from the dying cop? Would be stupid, very dangerous, and pointless, but Owen wasn't thinking. I kinda think that it was a moment of truth. Acting without thinking, doesn't that reveal his true nature? Even if it doesn't what does Owen think of his actions looking back? It certainly wasn't a neutral act. And isn't the movie big on its division between light and darkness? In context, I'm just curious how Owen would start rationalizing his decision to help Abby.

The doodoo was hitting the fan, and it was splattering everywhere, and it was doing it FAST. Did Owen make a choice? Yes, he did. Did he know the cop? Only an American would say "Yea, I know him" after having seen his face for all of maybe ten seconds before being relegated to his room; for Owen, the cop didn't even have a name. In practical effect, you could say that Owen was forced to make a choice, and he did - he chose not to interfere with Abby's killing the cop because at some level he must have sensed that the cop was a threat.

Remember, the cop represents Institution, and this is one thing Owen has learned not to trust. Abby represents whatever you care to name as the opposite to Institution, and it had been very kind to him.

To me this scene was one of LMI's big failures. MR gave neither ourselves nor Owen any real reason to care about the cop. Sure, he seems a decent man trying to do his job - but we know basically nothing about him, and that goes for Owen too. That totally ruined for me the intended drama when Owen closes the door on him - presumably it's meant to symbolise Owen turning his back on humanity and its institutions and authorities, for the sake of Abby, murderous nature and all. But it doesn't work because there's no particular reason for him (or us) to care about the cop and, in practice, little he could have done differently. The scene to me ended up being ridiculous.
More on topic, Owen more or less uses the language of religion (indeed his father mistakes his question as motivated by his mother's rantings), but he clearly isn't thinking in clear religious terms. Otherwise, 'Thou shall not kill,' seems clear enough - surely he would identify Abby as belonging with the damned, her supernatural qualities some kind of mark of Cain. That Owen asks surely means he's not thinking in such terms, but more in terms of trying to come to terms with what Abby does, on some kind of 'first principles' approach. I don't think he's given the afterlife much thought, any more than he's given much thought to what he'd say to the judge if Abby and him were charged with murder and aiding and abetting respectively.

[EEA]

I think Owen does not care about that. Like he tells Abby that there is nothing good in this town. He wants to leave. His parents have fail him and so has the adults that suppose to protect him at school. His mom drinks and talks nonsense, she can't give him support or give him a descent meal. Dishes dirty from who knows how many days. His dad instead of going to talk to him in person decides to talk over the phone when Owen probably wants a hug. Abby has been there for him. She cares for him even if she has to kill to survive. The damage is done by the people who are part of Owen's life. They fail to protect him.

[DarkGuyver]

I don't think Owen was worried about going to hell, when he phone his father and asked "do you believe there is such a thing as evil?". I think he was suffering from shock after he saw Abby's vampiric nature and he was confused. I get the feeling that his mother maybe a religious fanatic, from what his dad said on the phone to him .

"Does this have anything to do with that religious crap your mom has been talking about?"

After he saw Abby's vampiric face, he was probably questioning the existance of evil, and demons. Which is the reason why he went to talk to his parents about it.

[DavidZahir]

I think Owen may be a worried about going to Hell (interesting question btw). The more I think on it, the more that seems likely. But it also begs the questions--How much does he fear it? and What does that mean to him, to Owen personally?

Personally, Owen doesn't seem like the type to spend much time actually imagining what an afterlife of eternal punishment might be like in any detail. That is a personal impression to be sure, but consider also that the kid lies and steals with little compunction. More, he takes open delight in the humiliation of the kid who tortures him. Besides, when it comes down to it, he never tries to ward Abby off with a cross nor see what happens if she touches a Bible. As far as we can tell, he never broaches any such questions with Abby--although methinks there's a marvelous potential fanfic seed in the whole idea of that conversation (Side Note: I am reminded of a question asked by a disturbed girl to a young woman she's learned is a werewolf in the Ginger Snaps sequel--"When you close your eyes, do you see Hell?" Girl was hella creepy, I'm just sayin').

Given Owen was raised in a small American town in the 1970s, with a mother who at least likes the forms of religion around her, 'twould be kinda amazing if he didn't pick up the whole notion of SIN and EVIL as part of his world view. But notice I said "Part Of" not "Central To". One evidence of this is the way he actually looks at Jesus' face when stealing from his mom. Yeah, one might say he'd've done the same thing if it were a picture of Alice Cooper. But it wasn't. The Jesus pic was there deliberately, placed by the filmmakers and framed by the cinematographer and edited to include that moment. We clearly as supposed to take this as in some way a meaningful moment.

Likewise, Owen freaked at seeing Abby's 'game face' (well, wouldn't we all?) but his reaction is telling on many levels. Run to church? No. The police? Nope. Do we see him pray? Grab a bible or cross for protection? Negative to both. He doesn't ask his Dad if there's such a thing as demons or God or vampires. "Is there such a thing as Evil?"

Even more interestingly, he approaches Abby directly. She tells him the truth, pretty much. And what makes him leave is the picture of Thomas as a child--clearly this is the proverbial straw on the camel's back as far as remaining in the apartment with Abby at that moment. (Parenthetically, this scene shows Owen demonstrating some real courage--more than I think I would in similar circumstances). But then--he lets her into his apartment! He even acts to save her, the moment it sinks in that Abby is in danger!

So I'm going to posit a theory. Owen thinks of Hell in terms of his own experience. Rather than an abstract notion based on religious belief, he thinks of Hell as the worst kinds of things he's actually encountered. Hell is being at the mercy of Kenny and his pals. Hell is getting into A Lot Of Trouble (for children the word 'Trouble' means ever so much more than it does to adults). When he sees something genuinely life-changing, i.e. a real vampire, that forces his imagination into a new direction. He tries to work it out, but does so indirectly--never telling any authority figure the details (methinks like many kids, he sees those as wielders of punishments). One can say he's trying to avoid Hell as he understands it, with little if anything to do with theology or dogma. But what he concludes in the "I knew you wouldn't let me" scene is the Personal Truth which shapes the rest of the story...

For Owen, Hell is life alone. Life without his beloved Abby.

[sauvin]

Personally, Owen doesn't seem like the type to spend much time actually imagining what an afterlife of eternal punishment might be like in any detail. That is a personal impression to be sure, but consider also that the kid lies and steals with little compunction.

We're shown Oskar lying to his mother, and stealing from her. Does he do these things anywhere else? If so, I don't remember it.

More, he takes open delight in the humiliation of the kid who tortures him.

Who wouldn't?

Besides, when it comes down to it, he never tries to ward Abby off with a cross nor see what happens if she touches a Bible. As far as we can tell, he never broaches any such questions with Abby

The Swedish movie is even more utterly devoid of religious imagery than it is of anything directly recognisable as sexual. The few references to religion made in LMI lead me to believe that Reeves is saying religion had already lost most of its power in 1983, except in its variegated practitioners' ability to commit various kinds of mayhem - the cop asks Thomas if he's a member of some cult in spite of there being no reason to suspect this other than time and place.

--although methinks there's a marvelous potential fanfic seed in the whole idea of that conversation (Side Note: I am reminded of a question asked by a disturbed girl to a young woman she's learned is a werewolf in the Ginger Snaps sequel--"When you close your eyes, do you see [deleted]?" Girl was [deleted] creepy, I'm just sayin').

Possibly, and if there's anybody who can shoehorn a hair-brained, ill-informed, hysterical and impassioned religious element into this "conversation", it'd be an American, probably from my part of the Ocean of Con Agra. In doing so, though, the story's romance would be drowned out, because suddenly Owen's relationship with his girlfriend would become far secondary to the Great Causes of the Day or Ages.

The Jesus pic was there deliberately, placed by the filmmakers and framed by the cinematographer and edited to include that moment. We clearly as supposed to take this as in some way a meaningful moment.

And still Owen took the money. Even if he were to fear some kind of divine retribution for this theft, it apparently discomfits him less than his need to feed his addiction to candy. Did he show any sign of hesitation whatsoever? I missed it if so. The picture of Jesus seems to have no power over him.

He doesn't ask his Dad if there's such a thing as demons or God or vampires. "Is there such a thing as Evil?"

And if he'd thought about evil in terms of his own private circumstances, what do you suppose his eventual conclusion would have been? I think that very phone conversation should provide an important clue. If his father hadn't himself been a man on some kind of mission, if he'd actually been hearing in Owen's voice that he was hopelessly lost and looking for some kind of guidance, he should have answered with the question "If there is such a thing as Evil, what do you suppose it might be?", but he doesn't.

In effect, his mother and father both ignore him entirely.

Even more interestingly, he approaches Abby directly. She tells him the truth, pretty much. And what makes him leave is the picture of Thomas as a child--clearly this is the proverbial straw on the camel's back as far as remaining in the apartment with Abby at that moment. (Parenthetically, this scene shows Owen demonstrating some real courage--more than I think I would in similar circumstances).

Courage? Maybe he figured he was dead already no matter what he did or said, and decided to face it with defiance.

So I'm going to posit a theory. Owen thinks of [deleted] in terms of his own experience. Rather than an abstract notion based on religious belief, he thinks of [deleted] as the worst kinds of things he's actually encountered. [deleted] is being at the mercy of Kenny and his pals. [deleted] is getting into A Lot Of Trouble (for children the word 'Trouble' means ever so much more than it does to adults).

Yup. He's learned to distrust Institution.

When he sees something genuinely life-changing, i.e. a real vampire, that forces his imagination into a new direction. He tries to work it out, but does so indirectly--never telling any authority figure the details (methinks like many kids, he sees those as wielders of punishments).

He never tells the Institution he's learned to distrust.

It's been speculated in LTROI threads that Oskar remonstrated with Eli for her "stealing" money from her victims rather than being concerned with the fact of the murders itself. The speculation is that he'd been struggling with the fact that she is a vampire, something so outside his (or anybody else's) experience he just can't get his arms around it - but theft? That's very well within his moral horizon, and so that's what he fixates on. Could something similar be going on with Owen, too, that he couldn't run to the authorities (even if he'd wanted to) before he could grok it himself?

One can say he's trying to avoid [deleted] as he understands it, with little if anything to do with theology or dogma. But what he concludes in the "I knew you wouldn't let me" scene is the Personal Truth which shapes the rest of the story...

Yup. We're still digging, but LTROI and LMI hit us very hard on this very level: Personal Truth.

Edit: 5 Novembre 2011, replaced a "bad word" with [deleted] to comply with renewed restrictions on language.

Edit: 5 Novembre 2011, replaced a "bad word" with [deleted] to comply with renewed restrictions on language.

Edit: 5 Novembre 2011, replaced a "bad word" with [deleted] to comply with renewed restrictions on language.

Edit: 5 Novembre 2011, replaced a "bad word" with [deleted] to comply with renewed restrictions on language.

Edit: 5 Novembre 2011, replaced a "bad word" with [deleted] to comply with renewed restrictions on language.

Edit: 5 Novembre 2011, replaced a "bad word" with [deleted] to comply with renewed restrictions on language.

Edit: 5 Novembre 2011, replaced a "bad word" with [deleted] to comply with renewed restrictions on language.

Edit: 5 Novembre 2011, replaced a "bad word" with [deleted] to comply with renewed restrictions on language.

[DavidZahir]

We're shown Oskar lying to his mother, and stealing from her. Does he do these things anywhere else?

Not that I recall.

Who wouldn't?

Well, I think that presumes everyone would openly gloat, even at age twelve. That seems problematical. Perhaps even more to the point, he doesn't even try to hide his feelings. Owen wears his heart on his sleeve.

Possibly, and if there's anybody who can shoehorn a hair-brained, ill-informed, hysterical and impassioned religious element into this "conversation", it'd be an American, probably from my part of the Ocean of Con Agra. In doing so, though, the story's romance would be drowned out, because suddenly Owen's relationship with his girlfriend would become far secondary to the Great Causes of the Day or Ages.

Honestly, I think that'd depend on how it were handled. JMHO

Courage? Maybe he figured he was dead already no matter what he did or said, and decided to face it with defiance.

You just described King Theoden in ROTK, before leading the charge at the Battle of Pelanor Fields. Actually, you just described the entire Rohirrim Nation! Sounds like courage to me--not the absence of fear but mastery of it.

We're still digging, but LTROI and LMI hit us very hard on this very level: Personal Truth.

Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding!