Owen the Strong One

[DavidZahir]

I've been thinking about this for a long while, and decided to share it precisely because it goes against conventional opinion about LMI.

Most people who've seen both flick and care enough to think of such things, seem to view Oscar as a stronger character than Owen. I disagree. Not because Oscar seems less fascinating or less likable, but precisely because they are subtly but fundamentally different people.

First, Oscar has frankly less to endure. His bullies are smaller and less vicious. Unlike his New Mexico counterpart, Oscar's mother is there for him and at times so is his father. But more tellingly, his arc has more in common with the character from the novel. Oscar is a creepy little boy, one given to studying crime and violent death and disasters. Much of his energy is directed to keeping that aspect of himself secret--which is part of what makes his relationship with Eli so special. Eli sees through the social mask. In fact, she effectively rips it off him so he can see himself for the first time and recognize how Eli is his mirror.

But now look at Owen. By most measures he is the more oppressed of the two boys. His bullies are bigger and a lot nastier. Whereas Conny seems to be testing himself, Kenny comes across as someone actively hungry for inflicting pain and humiliation. More, Owen lacks even the meager support system that Oscar can fall back upon. It takes next-to-no effort to hide things from Owen's Mom. She's perpetually distracted by religion and wine or by her bitterness to Owen's father. Said father is simply absent. When talking to his son, he can't even manage an effort to really listen to what Owen has to say when calling him for the first time in who-knows-how-long! Owen's arc is not about recognizing his real self (a totally appropriate and interesting arc btw) but rather learning at a heart-breakingly early age to pay BIG for something he wants. Owen in effect sells his soul for love, and does so eyes open.

I would even make the argument that Owen shows more strength than Abby. After all, on a visceral level he knows he can stay where he is and continue. Leaving with her is a leap into the unknown, essentially on faith in her. Abby on the other hand is at least on some level repeating a cycle she has gone through before. Owen knows that on an intellectual level, but when it comes to realizing what that means he has the example of Thomas before him--the foul-mouthed, angry, lonely old man with broken glasses and a limp.

Yet he goes forward.

Oscar leaves with Eli in a spirit of hope, with the optimism of youth. Owen on the other hand has a reason to think this might end badly. He has more moral scruples. It is a more difficult choice, a braver decision. What he does takes more strength.

(But again--these are both wonderful stories and I love'em pretty much equally.)

[jetboy]

I've been thinking about this for a long while, and decided to share it precisely because it goes against conventional opinion about LMI.

Most people who've seen both flick and care enough to think of such things, seem to view Oscar as a stronger character than Owen. I disagree. Not because Oscar seems less fascinating or less likable, but precisely because they are subtly but fundamentally different people.

First, Oscar has frankly less to endure. His bullies are smaller and less vicious. Unlike his New Mexico counterpart, Oscar's mother is there for him and at times so is his father. But more tellingly, his arc has more in common with the character from the novel. Oscar is a creepy little boy, one given to studying crime and violent death and disasters. Much of his energy is directed to keeping that aspect of himself secret--which is part of what makes his relationship with Eli so special. Eli sees through the social mask. In fact, she effectively rips it off him so he can see himself for the first time and recognize how Eli is his mirror.

But now look at Owen. By most measures he is the more oppressed of the two boys. His bullies are bigger and a lot nastier. Whereas Conny seems to be testing himself, Kenny comes across as someone actively hungry for inflicting pain and humiliation. More, Owen lacks even the meager support system that Oscar can fall back upon. It takes next-to-no effort to hide things from Owen's Mom. She's perpetually distracted by religion and wine or by her bitterness to Owen's father. Said father is simply absent. When talking to his son, he can't even manage an effort to really listen to what Owen has to say when calling him for the first time in who-knows-how-long! Owen's arc is not about recognizing his real self (a totally appropriate and interesting arc btw) but rather learning at a heart-breakingly early age to pay BIG for something he wants. Owen in effect sells his soul for love, and does so eyes open.

I would even make the argument that Owen shows more strength than Abby. After all, on a visceral level he knows he can stay where he is and continue. Leaving with her is a leap into the unknown, essentially on faith in her. Abby on the other hand is at least on some level repeating a cycle she has gone through before. Owen knows that on an intellectual level, but when it comes to realizing what that means he has the example of Thomas before him--the foul-mouthed, angry, lonely old man with broken glasses and a limp.

Yet he goes forward.

Oscar leaves with Eli in a spirit of hope, with the optimism of youth. Owen on the other hand has a reason to think this might end badly. He has more moral scruples. It is a more difficult choice, a braver decision. What he does takes more strength.

(But again--these are both wonderful stories and I love'em pretty much equally.)

I agree and thats one of the reasons I dont like LMI, especially in light of LTROI. The book and movie both show the destructive force, not only of bullying, but of dreaming of revenge all the time. This is one of the reasons LTROI was ever made in the first place. Make believe Owen is make believe braver over make believe oppressors. There isnt an ounce of real bravery anywhere. Dont you think the original could have done that? Its not supposed to be about brave people deserving of love, its about people falling through the cracks and how they are as deserving of love as everybody else.

[sauvin]

I've been thinking about this for a long while, and decided to share it precisely because it goes against conventional opinion about LMI.

It's early days yet. It's hard to say what "conventional opinion about LMI" is or is going to be. We need more heavy brains to spend some time in this section!

... not because Oscar seems less fascinating or less likable, but precisely because they are subtly but fundamentally different people.

A point to bear in mind as discussion ensues. Abby ain't Eli, Owen ain't Oskar and Thomas ain't Hakan. All of these differences radically change the story, and therefore the essence of the reality within which all the characters have to operate.

First, Oscar has frankly less to endure. His bullies are smaller and less vicious. Unlike his New Mexico counterpart, Oscar's mother is there for him and at times so is his father.

Are they? I got the impression that Oskar was more of a "thing", a "possession" to his mother than he was an actual son to love and worry about. There may have been some mutual regard (toothbrushing scene), but Oskar was still unable to confide in his mother (denying the bullying). One of the pivotal scenes eventually leading to Oskar's decision to leave Blackeberg, I believe, was when he'd come home to a furious mother yelling at his part-time father on the phone. What seemed to be on her mind most was "What will they think of me!?" along with "He's YOUR son, YOU do something with him!"

And, of course, Oskar's father did absolutely nothing about the issue burning Mom up: Oskar's having whacked another schoolkid upside the head hard enough to send him to the hospital with a cloven ear. What did Dad do? He deigned to play a few games with Oskar until a drinking buddy showed up. No sense of fatherly duty whatsoever was shown here.

No, Oskar's parents weren't there for him. Food, clothing, schooling and that kind of thing, yes, but for figuring the world out and how to function within it? Oskar was on his own.

Ditto Owen.

Oscar is a creepy little boy, one given to studying crime and violent death and disasters. Much of his energy is directed to keeping that aspect of himself secret...

When you and I disagree in this or related discussions, it may be helpful for both of us to remember that I tend to remember the characters in the movie much more clearly than in the novel. You are correct, but these aspects aren't as "in your face" in the movie as in the novel.

But now look at Owen. By most measures he is the more oppressed of the two boys. His bullies are bigger and a lot nastier. Whereas Conny seems to be testing himself, Kenny comes across as someone actively hungry for inflicting pain and humiliation. More, Owen lacks even the meager support system that Oscar can fall back upon. It takes next-to-no effort to hide things from Owen's Mom. She's perpetually distracted by religion and wine or by her bitterness to Owen's father. Said father is simply absent. When talking to his son, he can't even manage an effort to really listen to what Owen has to say when calling him for the first time in who-knows-how-long!

Owen's bullies are indeed larger and physically nastier. Whether or not this makes them more devastating depends on a number of things, including your own personal POV, but I think it's a mistake to underrate the psychological damage being done Owen or Oskar.

As for support systems, neither boy has any meaningful or reliable emotional support - it takes just as little to hide things from Oskar's mother as from Owen's, though I'll be [deleted]ed if I can figure out what distracted Oskar's mother. Owen was graphically shown being unable to get help of any sort from his father (on the telephone asking about evil), whereas Oskar's inability to get fatherly help was simply implicit.

I will agree on one minor point, though: Oskar didn't seem to be a football in the game of tackle football Owen's parents were playing.

Owen's arc is not about recognizing his real self (a totally appropriate and interesting arc btw) but rather learning at a heart-breakingly early age to pay BIG for something he wants. Owen in effect sells his soul for love, and does so eyes open.

Eyes wide open? Maybe, and I can't comment on either boy "recognising his real self", but I can't help wondering if maybe Owen didn't just run away from home with his new monster girlfriend understanding that he's already paid a very large price, and will probably pay worse in times to come, but has had to learn at a heart-breakingly early age that he's on his own, that he has no real control over where life will take him, and que sera, sera.

I think he simply chose between "bad" and "worse" as filtered through the exigencies of the moment and the quality of the life he's had thus far: he could expect virtually zero understanding or real compassion in the wake of the kids' deaths, and he'd just become a soccer in some other massively institutional game, whereas Abby? Well... after all... she does have a really sweet smile, and she does sometimes seem to listen to him.

I would even make the argument that Owen shows more strength than Abby. After all, on a visceral level he knows he can stay where he is and continue. Leaving with her is a leap into the unknown, essentially on faith in her. Abby on the other hand is at least on some level repeating a cycle she has gone through before. Owen knows that on an intellectual level, but when it comes to realizing what that means he has the example of Thomas before him--the foul-mouthed, angry, lonely old man with broken glasses and a limp.

Yet he goes forward.

But how much does he really believe in her? How much do any of us, with our supposedly greater experience and perspective? He knows what she is, and he has to know intellectually every time he hugs her, he's putting the scent of a freshly and perfectly grilled hamburger right under the nose of a hungry monster who hasn't had a decent bite in forever.

I can't put my finger on what makes me say this yet, but I have a very strong impression that Oskar trusted Eli - that he could trust her - much more than Owen trusted Abby.

And again, I'm up against Owen apparently having chosen which kind of misery and fear he believes he can endure more easily. Maybe he just believes that maybe there's something to the tired old advertising saw ("New! Improved!").

Oscar leaves with Eli in a spirit of hope, with the optimism of youth. Owen on the other hand has a reason to think this might end badly. He has more moral scruples. It is a more difficult choice, a braver decision..

On what do you base your assessment of either boy's moral scruples?

Edit: 11 Decembre 2011 Replaced a "bad" word with [deleted] in compliance with renewed language restrictions.

[TigerEyes]

I’m a bit peeved at people that thinks badly of Oskar. “Oh, he’s not likable.” Some says. Here’s the thing, what do we know about Owen and Oskar? They’re both completely different boys with completely different life with a same kind of things like bullies, mysterious vampire, and burning desire for revenge.

Just because Oskar is less likable than Owen doesn’t mean we should be treating him poorly. His behavior is precisely why I feel for him.

Oskar
1) His mother thinks of Oskar as her little baby boy, his father chooses alcohol over him.
2) His bullies are not as nasty as in the novel, but they’re still mean.
3) Eli is a mysterious androgynous vampire with a dark past. Never had normal friendship for 200 years.
4) In the novel, he feels bad about what he did to Jonny and offers him his sock on the wound. In the film, Oskar’s face was, “I’m free. I’m not going to be bullied again.”
5) He was a jerk who tried to get Eli to come inside uninvited, but felt bad and asked for forgiveness.
6) He offers his candy to Eli. When rejected, he was disappointed. (But that’s understandable, he didn’t understand.)
7) He hugs Eli after throwing up, claiming he likes Eli.
8) saves Eli from Lacke, sees Lacke get eaten by Eli and throws away his knife.
9) He was looking hopeful on the train, hoping that things can be good for him and Eli.
10) he collects newspaper clippings of murders, stabs trees, and has violent fantasies.

Owen
1) His mother’s a drunkard, his father isn’t there for Owen.
2) His bullies are bigger and meaner, which can be same as in the novel.
3) Abby is mysterious as Eli, but did have past relationships before.
4) He has a worried look on his face when he struck Kenny in the ear. (Keep in mind that Oskar wasn’t reveling in hurting Conny either)
5) He may have not trusted Abby enough to invite her in, but does it anyway. (In the novel, Oskar was given more time to think about Eli and what he had learned. Which is why Oskar didn’t look as scared as Owen)
6) He offers Candy to Abby, was sad that she didn’t accept it. (The same is a bit same with Oskar, so neither is better than another)
7) He does save Abby from the cop, the scene follows closely with the same ending as the original film. (Again, neither is better than another)
8) He looks worried, though he goes with Abby. (I think it’s fine too either way)
9) He wears a mask and holds a knife close to his head Michael Myers style. (Seriously? I think I prefer Oskar over Owen)
10) The pool scene is much bloodier and more gruesome than the original one. But I think the original is bit poetic while the LMI is like a typical horror film.

I would have to say here that Owen and Oskar are not better or worse than one another. They are, in my opinion, like everyone else. We all would respond similarly to Owen or to Oskar or in different ways. Oskar is not likable because of his violent fantasy, but he’s not a bad kid and he is actually a troubled kid. Like Owen, he’s not really likable either. From what I can see, neither of these boys actually relish in killing anyone, they just want the bullying to end as we all do. They’re both just troubled and wanted someone to reach them. Eli and Abby did.

[sauvin]

I’m a bit peeved at people that thinks badly of Oskar. “Oh, he’s not likable.” Some says. Here’s the thing, what do we know about Owen and Oskar? They’re both completely different boys with completely different life with a same kind of things like bullies, mysterious vampire, and burning desire for revenge.

The boys in the movies were likeable enough, IMO, but each boy does seem bound for [deleted] in his own individual handbasket.

Who is Owen? Why, he's the shy, soft-spoken little boy with soft, dark eyes to peer through telescopes gawking at couples in intimate moments. He lies easily to his mother, and steals from her - and if he'll do that, then what kind of respect can other people expect from him? You might say this is just some phase he's going through, that lots of little boys do the same things at that age, it's just a normal rebellion that'll wear away with time, patience, understanding and maybe a little old-fashioned discipline, but what with Dad never being around and Mom usually being too busy quarreling with him on the phone (just like little kids, they are!), being deep in her cups or being stupefied by the Electronic Church, it seems Owen has precious little hope being guided through this phase.

Like Oskar, he's not very kind to trees, is he?

The Oskar we're shown in the movie has somewhat different problems. The only time we're shown him stealing anything is a newspaper from the kitchen, and that's debatable: the newspaper could be considered family property. The respect he has for his mother might not be all one could ever wish for, but are we ever shown him lying to her, or stealing from her? Oskar does indeed have a bullying problem, like Owen, but while we're shown an Owen with a knife and a mask acting out a confrontation in the privacy of his room, we're not shown him collecting newspaper clippings for his death book. The Oskar we're shown in the movie has been doing this for some time, a very clear sign that Oskar is in very deep emotional trouble.

And now, novel Oskar. I don't remember the novel nearly as well as I could wish, but wasn't he a bit pudgy? He lied, too, didn't he? And stole? Shoplifted? Kept death books? And set fire to other kids' desks? Novel Oskar really was a creep, and many people probably would have called him "unlovable". I don't think we'll ever have any real confidence we know exactly where either movie boy's head is with respect to murder, but didn't novel Oskar deliberately go out to stab a tree again on theory that some kind of magic might kill his bullies the same somebody else had died on his first tree-stabbing sortie? (Am I remembering this properly?)

Novel Oskar, in particular, was a complex young man who, for example, tried to help the Connie whose ear he'd just bisected with a stick - he was scared [deleted]less he'd killed him, if I'm remembering correctly, and horrified at the injury he'd inflicted.

We're not necessarily "hating on" either boy when we make these kinds of comparisons, but we do have to examine them as thoroughly as their respective stories allow if we're to understand them and the relationships they develop with their respective girlfriends.

Edit: 5 Novembre 2011, replaced a "bad word" with [deleted] to comply with renewed restrictions on language.

Edit: 5 Novembre 2011, replaced a "bad word" with [deleted] to comply with renewed restrictions on language.

[DavidZahir]

Please keep in mind I'm not saying Oscar is particularly "worse" than Owen, but that his circumstances are different as are his reactions. For example, in LTROI Oscar clearly has pleasant, fun times with each of his parents. Owen does not. It isn't that Oscar is not hurt, humiliated, damaged by Conny and his little gang--but that Kenny and his group actually treat Owen even worse.

I can't put my finger on what makes me say this yet, but I have a very strong impression that Oskar trusted Eli - that he could trust her - much more than Owen trusted Abby.

I agree. Which is why I say his going with her at the end is a decision requiring more strength.

On what do you base your assessment of either boy's moral scruples?

#1 The scene were Eli insists she's the same as Oscar, and the look on his face as what she's saying reaches home.
#2 The genuine way Owen freaks out as he realizes Abby is a vampire and he tries to make sense of it as well as his feelings by discussing "Evil" (or trying to), weeping as he does so.
#3 The undiluted joy Oscar's face shows as Eli returns, having ripped the bullies to shreds--as compared to the more mixed feelings Owen demonstrates when seeing Abby as she did the same to his tormentors. That each vampire must frankly be covered in gore is a factor here (we can see it from Abby's feet as she touches down, and from spatter on Eli's face).

[cmfireflies]

Oscar leaves with Eli in a spirit of hope, with the optimism of youth. Owen on the other hand has a reason to think this might end badly. He has more moral scruples. It is a more difficult choice, a braver decision. What he does takes more strength.

I see what you're saying here, but the other side is that Owen leaving takes less strength because he's giving up less than Oskar.
Owen might not be weaker than Oskar (or stronger) but I think LMI emphasized his weakness more. I can't help but think the plot of LMI is about how Owen is pushed towards Abby while LtROI is about how Oskar discovers that he wants to be with Eli. Owen may see more clearly the future pitfalls, but the way the story is structured, Owen's only available path is with Abby. Eyes open or not, he has no choice. From a storytelling perspective that is, if this was real, there's always a choice.

For example, Oskar chooses to leave his father after becoming disillusioned or unhappy with him. He hitches a ride back in the middle of the night. That's quite brave. He does it because he wants to. That's a turning point that brings him closer to Eli. Owen's turning point is also precipitated by parental abandonment, but the difference is, he had no choice in the matter. He tries to establish contact, but his dad is unavailable. His mom, more literally so (as she is passed out drunk).

For what it's worth I think both kids were quite brave leaving with their respective vampires. But I thought that Owen believed that he didn't have a choice while Oskar really wanted to. I don't think either boy is naive, both must realize that it's very dangerous to be with a vampire. I don't really agree that Oskar's "true self" is happy murderer, I think Eli said what she said to get a bit of empathy. All I can say is I thought the movie presented Owen as less brave than Oskar because Oskar had more choice in his decisions.

Interesting that you say Owen sells his soul for love and yet say that he has more moral scruples than Oskar. Isn't that a bit of a contradiction?
I agree with Tigereyes regarding Oskar. The whole point of LtROI was about imperfect people opening up and loving each other. Saying that Oskar was "less likeable" than Owen seems to me to be missing the point the same way that the "split-personality" approach to Abby seems to be missing the point. Sure it's easier to say Owen would have been a perfect boy had he had loving parents, had he not been bullied, etc and that Abby is a perfect angel if she did not have the infection inside her that drives her crazy with bloodlust, and that if they met each other in perfect circumstances their love would also be perfect. But then it sort of cheapens a story to have every flaw in the main characters attributable to some shortcoming in their environment.

I love Oskar and Eli because despite their imperfections they were able to find each other. I'm getting off-topic, but I guess it comes down to I like Oskar more than Owen. My biggest fear is that I'll end up with someone not because I think they're special, but because we're forced together by circumstances, and I think Abby and Owen are forced together by circumstances a little bit.

[DavidZahir]

Interesting that you say Owen sells his soul for love and yet say that he has more moral scruples than Oskar. Isn't that a bit of a contradiction?

A paradox, rather. My point is that Oscar in one sense is paying less of a price (in his own mind) than is Owen.

My biggest fear is that I'll end up with someone not because I think they're special, but because we're forced together by circumstances, and I think Abby and Owen are forced together by circumstances a little bit.

Ah. We're coming from different places here. You see, my fear was that I would "settle" for someone (shades of my parents' marriage to be brutally frank) but circumstances totally brought my late fiancee and me together--and I've zero regrets in any way.

[sauvin]

I can't put my finger on what makes me say this yet, but I have a very strong impression that Oskar trusted Eli - that he could trust her - much more than Owen trusted Abby.

I agree. Which is why I say his going with her at the end is a decision requiring more strength.

Or more resigned fatalism.

On what do you base your assessment of either boy's moral scruples?

#1 The scene were Eli insists she's the same as Oscar, and the look on his face as what she's saying reaches home.

He looks down, and says "nu" in a very subdued voice. Is he agreeing that what she said is true, that it's really revenge that he wants?

On second thought, maybe he honestly believes he would gleefully murder his bullies - but from this scene, I don't get that he's totally convinced.

#2 The genuine way Owen freaks out as he realizes Abby is a vampire and he tries to make sense of it as well as his feelings by discussing "Evil" (or trying to), weeping as he does so.

The poor boy is terrified, this sure seems clear enough. But tell me, is he weeping totally because he's just found out the Love of his young life is anybody's worst nightmare? Might he not also be coming to the terrifying conclusion that no matter how bad things get, he can count only on himself for guidance and for figuring things out? Might he not be feeling wholly unequal to the task? Might he not be experiencing a bitter disappointment as he learns that what he'd been suspecting for quite a while is true, that his parents are worthless? Just when he needs them most, just when it really counts, ultimately, he's still just a hockey puck on his parent's divorce rink.

#3 The undiluted joy Oscar's face shows as Eli returns, having ripped the bullies to shreds--as compared to the more mixed feelings Owen demonstrates when seeing Abby as she did the same to his tormentors. That each vampire must frankly be covered in gore is a factor here (we can see it from Abby's feet as she touches down, and from spatter on Eli's face).

This, I can't argue against. I'm still trying to sort out the myriad fleeting emotions I saw in Owen's eyes as he looked up to her after having been baptised in the blood of his enemies.

Still... "Um... Abby? Um... you know I love you, but... um... how mad would you be if I decided not to come with you when you go away? Would you... um... um... you know....?"

[DavidZahir]

On second thought, maybe he honestly believes he would gleefully murder his bullies - but from this scene, I don't get that he's totally convinced.

I don't think it that specific--more that he realizes the honest of what Eli says. That they are the same. That the thought of her killing people to live isn't really that upsetting to him--and that fact is a quantum shift in his assumptions about himself.

The poor boy is terrified, this sure seems clear enough. But tell me, is he weeping totally because he's just found out the Love of his young life is anybody's worst nightmare? Might he not also be coming to the terrifying conclusion that no matter how bad things get, he can count only on himself for guidance and for figuring things out?

Seems to me those are not mutually exclusive. Me, I see both--to some degree.

"Um... Abby? Um... you know I love you, but... um... how mad would you be if I decided not to come with you when you go away? Would you... um... um... you know....?"

Funny, but I don't think so. From what we've seen of Owen and Abby together, we know they are devoted to one another. He could not let her die. She never even considered doing anything to him when he learned the truth. He wept when she left. She promised to help him--and when he needed it, she did. That has been their experience of one another. Which is one reason he doesn't scream and try to run away when he sees her draped in pieces of Kenny, Kenny's brother, Kenny's friends, etc...