Owen the Strong One

[TigerEyes]

Looks like we might want to clarify what we mean by "strength".

so would the clarification be the strength of "Mental power, force, or vigor?" or "moral power, firmness, or courage?" or other things?

[DavidZahir]

Despite the title of this thread I believe it has been made quite clear that I see see Owen as stronger than Oscar, not that Oscar was somehow weak.

I do not form that opinion based on any one detail or event, but rather the overall context of the entire story of both boys. Honestly, I don't see how the fact that Oscar seems more methodically attacking a tree conveys anything either way.

I think I see, now - a kind of toughness in the face of adversity?

That is a big part of it, yes.

[Angelalex242]

Well...from the fanfiction I've read concerning Owen...they both end up the same way in the end. Turned.

It'd be interesting to see which boy adapts better to the turning.

How would Oskar vamp compare to Owen vamp?

[the_value_of_x]

Well...from the fanfiction I've read concerning Owen...they both end up the same way in the end. Turned.

It'd be interesting to see which boy adapts better to the turning.

How would Oskar vamp compare to Owen vamp?

Oskar would probably have less of the whining about, "Oh, I cannot bear to have dead people on my conscience" type of think, I guess.

[sauvin]

Well...from the fanfiction I've read concerning Owen...they both end up the same way in the end. Turned.

It'd be interesting to see which boy adapts better to the turning.

How would Oskar vamp compare to Owen vamp?

Oskar would probably have less of the whining about, "Oh, I cannot bear to have dead people on my conscience" type of think, I guess.

Not to put too fine a point on it, if vampire Oskar were ever to tangle with vampire Owen, Oskar would walk away with maybe a couple of scratches, and there wouldn't be enough left of Owen to scrape up with a putty knife.

[sauvin]

While we're considering the conditions under which Oskar and Owen fled with their respective vampire girlfriends, along with all the other factors we've discussed in this and other threads in the immediate aftermath of the pool scene, another nasty thought occurs to me.

Somebody had mentioned the fact of a dead cop in Owen's case. Even at 12, Owen must have been absolutely certain that serious investigation would ensue, and he's probably very well aware American cops hate cop killers almost above any other kind of criminal.

What both boys probably also had to consider is connexion and coincidence. Each had whacked his chief tormentor upside the head hard enough to warrant hospital time. This is a matter of school and hospital record. Just a few days later, said whacked kid, along with his older brother and known close friends are now dead at the pool. Connexion? Probably. Coincidence? In the eyes of the police, maybe not.

The fact these kids had been tormenting Oskar and Owen might not have been widely known; there's no indication it was known at all. This means the authorities never caught wind of it, they would probably have to view the boys' respective defences as unprovoked acts of spontaneous violence. It also means they'd tend to view Oskar and Owen as unstable and dangerous.

Owen and Oskar are innocent. We know that, I'd hope they'd know that, but I'd fear they'd know the police wouldn't. I can't speak for Swedish authorities, but this kind of connexion tandem with what's known of his home life may very well be enough to put Owen in an American detention centre.

I, too, get the impression that Owen was less pulled by Abby and more pushed away not only by the life he'd aliready lived in Los Alamos, but by the life he could reasonably be expected to fear imminent.

[lombano]

Each had whacked his chief tormentor upside the head hard enough to warrant hospital time. This is a matter of school and hospital record. Just a few days later, said whacked kid, along with his older brother and known close friends are now dead at the pool. Connexion? Probably. Coincidence? In the eyes of the police, maybe not.

Not to mention that in Oskar's case Andreas could testify that he had no participation in the killings, and that they had attempted to murder him. Granted, Andreas might be dismissed as unrealiable, but it's still more than Owen has. In the book, there are multiple witnesses and the police do not seem to suspect Oskar of wrongdoing.

I can't speak for Swedish authorities, but this kind of connexion tandem with what's known of his home life may very well be enough to put Owen in an American detention centre.

In Oskar's case there's nothing very obviously wrong with his home life, so my guess is he'd be less likely to face that. At best, Owen would probably be put in a carehome of some sort, and would be suspected of murder.

[cmfireflies]

It's physically impossible for a 12 year old to literally rip apart 3 other kids and Oskar/Owen wouldn't have any blood on them so I don't think they'll be accused of anything if they stayed.

On the topic of strength, I think it's impossible to say which character is stronger because the word is ambiguous. you could say that leaving with Abby/Eli took strength because they're taking a chance on the unknown, or you could say that staying takes strength because they're giving up on being with the one they love in order to not be a part of killing innocent people and to spare their parents grief.

It all depends on Owen and Oskar's nature. Acting against your nature would take courage. In Oskar's case, before Eli he never fought back against the bullies, but when Eli was in danger he actually tried to threaten Lacke with the knife. I would imagine what comes naturally to him would be to act submissively in the face of danger and then endure as his torments pass. So I think this took more courage than Owen yelling at the cop, because he knew the cop, the cop wasn't going to do anything to him even if Abby didn't wake up, but a drunk guy with a knife is more dangerous.

In fact the strongest thing they could have done would be to let Eli/Abby die during the invite scene, but that would take an inhuman level of strength. It's almost unthinkable, but that would probably be the right course of action for the sake of society.

I don't think it's valid to say that Owen was stronger because he had a clearer picture of what he was getting into, just because as someone pointed out that might have been resigned fatalism. Maybe Abby kind of bullied him into it, of course not with threats or physical force, but just because she's the stronger personality of the two and Owen is content to let her make the decisions in their relationship.

[jetboy]

You can look at Oskar's stabbing a tree as a way of fighting back. Its not going to do the trick but somewhere inside he could be saying, "Im doing something about it. Im not just going to roll myself up in a ball and feel sorry for myself."

You could say Owen had more torment but what strength did he show? He did alot of crying where Oskar tried to suck it up. To channel it into anger. Though it may hurt him, to me its a way of kicking back.

To compare strength you have to have both given the same circumstances. To say Owen has more strength because he knows that he might end up like the bloodgetter is false because Oskar didnt have that same circumstance. He was going into his scenario thinking things were going to be great.

[lombano]

It's physically impossible for a 12 year old to literally rip apart 3 other kids and Oskar/Owen wouldn't have any blood on them so I don't think they'll be accused of anything if they stayed.

It would be impossible, single-handedly, but he could be suspected of having had some kind of participation, of being an accomplice, even if only cheering the killer on. Likewise with the killing of the cop/Lacke. Andreas' testimony however would clear him of any participation in the pool killings.