What is "it"?
- sauvin
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Re: What is "it"?
I've known hunger. When I was in my late teens and early twenties, I'd sometimes go two or three days eating virtually nothing at all. In all that time, I can't remember ever once considering consuming anybody.
(I heard that thought, you, there, in the back row! You're a BAD PERSON! You leave my girlfriend out of this!)
There are plenty of places around the world where most people would laugh at my "knowing hunger"; they'd say if that if the longest I've ever gone without food is three days, then I don't know one flipping thing about it. I'd agree totally because I've also never had any kind of illness I'd associate with nutritional deficit. In such places in the world, Fido might not be safe, but given the context of this discussion, cannibalism in the real world remains exceedingly rare. It's not just people: we don't see dogs eating other dogs, or cats eating other cats (in fact, I've never heard of a dog eating a cat, or vice versa - professional courtesy?). Throughout the animal kingdom, it seems, eating one's conspecifics just isn't on the horizon no matter how bad things get.
Eli fought. In the novel, she fought when she first met Oskar, and it's implied by musical cues she fought in the movie on the same occasion. She fought in the basement clubhouse scene. Something within her most definitely sees Oskar as five litres of delicious hot blood, and I'm not at all persuaded that could ever change. She is who she is, and the beast within is what it is, and they don't really co-exist very happily. It seems unlikely the beast has any kind of concept of kinship.
In the past, we've likened Eli's condition to addiction. It almost doesn't matter what the addiction is, so long as it's something destructive in the near and middle terms when chronically overindulged, and the destruction has to have ripple effects to those around the addict. The guy who's steadily turning his liver into mush with truckloads of Jack isn't just hammering nails into his coffin, he's also estranging his wife and children, losing his job and thereby becoming an undue burden to society, and so on.
The metaphor isn't perfect because addictions aren't usually communicable the way Eli's is, but it could be argued that children of alcoholic parents tend to grow up into pretty much the same monsters but with different outwardly visible facets.
Whatever "it" is, it's one of a handful of elements used in the story to amplify the effect one person's curse can have on the surrounding community, and to make the process of "boy meets girl" that much more deucedly complicated (like Eli, Oskar is also very badly socially compromised). In the movie, it makes the final scene that much more touching.
"It", really, is just a prop.
(I heard that thought, you, there, in the back row! You're a BAD PERSON! You leave my girlfriend out of this!)
There are plenty of places around the world where most people would laugh at my "knowing hunger"; they'd say if that if the longest I've ever gone without food is three days, then I don't know one flipping thing about it. I'd agree totally because I've also never had any kind of illness I'd associate with nutritional deficit. In such places in the world, Fido might not be safe, but given the context of this discussion, cannibalism in the real world remains exceedingly rare. It's not just people: we don't see dogs eating other dogs, or cats eating other cats (in fact, I've never heard of a dog eating a cat, or vice versa - professional courtesy?). Throughout the animal kingdom, it seems, eating one's conspecifics just isn't on the horizon no matter how bad things get.
Eli fought. In the novel, she fought when she first met Oskar, and it's implied by musical cues she fought in the movie on the same occasion. She fought in the basement clubhouse scene. Something within her most definitely sees Oskar as five litres of delicious hot blood, and I'm not at all persuaded that could ever change. She is who she is, and the beast within is what it is, and they don't really co-exist very happily. It seems unlikely the beast has any kind of concept of kinship.
In the past, we've likened Eli's condition to addiction. It almost doesn't matter what the addiction is, so long as it's something destructive in the near and middle terms when chronically overindulged, and the destruction has to have ripple effects to those around the addict. The guy who's steadily turning his liver into mush with truckloads of Jack isn't just hammering nails into his coffin, he's also estranging his wife and children, losing his job and thereby becoming an undue burden to society, and so on.
The metaphor isn't perfect because addictions aren't usually communicable the way Eli's is, but it could be argued that children of alcoholic parents tend to grow up into pretty much the same monsters but with different outwardly visible facets.
Whatever "it" is, it's one of a handful of elements used in the story to amplify the effect one person's curse can have on the surrounding community, and to make the process of "boy meets girl" that much more deucedly complicated (like Eli, Oskar is also very badly socially compromised). In the movie, it makes the final scene that much more touching.
"It", really, is just a prop.
Fais tomber les barrières entre nous qui sommes tous des frères
Re: What is "it"?
The eliform vampiric infection is something else than a tumour, or a parasitic fungus. According to the novel, the eliform infection produces a brain of sorts, which implies some level of mental processes separate from those of the host. The question is, I think, what this level might be. I prefer to think that the level is rather primitive, say, on par with a lizard. I also like the idea that the infection exerts it's influence by stimulating the host's brain rather than directly controlling the hosts body.SpartanAltego wrote:It's an infection; it doesn't really think or reason the same way the cells of a tumor don't think or reason. All it can express is instincts and urges, powerful ones at that: eat, survive, become, hide (from the sun). It can supplant the higher thought processes of a host, betraying its parasitic nature, to fulfill those urges. Similar parasites can be found throughout nature, playing puppeteer to the brains of aquatic life and so on.
Well, I agree that the eliform infection has a magical aspect, but I don't agree that the biological explanation JAL introduced just serves to distract. Rather I think it is quite significant. You see, curses are dramatic, while infections are mundane. Eli's state being a result of an infection rather than of a curse thus serves to further the sense of drabness that permeates his existence.SpartanAltego wrote:That's from a realist perspective, anyway. When it comes down to it, LtROI is explicitly a story of reality meeting the supernatural, and considering the vampirism as portrayed in the story as just a disease would be obtuse. It's a curse, hiding behind a veneer of biology and logic simply so that the mundane world needn't become aware of the wolves among the flock. The second brain on the heart, the strange cellular activity noted in Hakan's remains, all of it is just window dressing that doesn't serve to explain, only to distract. There are no answers to be found in dissection, study, or examination of the aspects of the curse that can be seen.
But from the beginning Eli was just Eli. Nothing. Anything. And he is still a mystery to me. John Ajvide Lindqvist
Re: What is "it"?
Even though eliform vampirism could be described as biological and as having evolved over time, the novel and film are about a vampire, so it demands a certain amount of the spooky and supernatural.
Anyway, that just adds to his/her isolation and "otherness." Without that and Oskar's isolation, the power that drives the unlikely and delightful relationship wouldn't have the powerful drama of "will they/won't they" that has us rooting for the children to get it right.
Anyway, that just adds to his/her isolation and "otherness." Without that and Oskar's isolation, the power that drives the unlikely and delightful relationship wouldn't have the powerful drama of "will they/won't they" that has us rooting for the children to get it right.
“For drama to deepen, we must see the loneliness of the monster and the cunning of the innocent.”
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Re: What is "it"?
Very interesting indeed, In the novel we saw through Virginia's eyes what the parasite looks like, and even if my interpretation of the parasite doesn't relate of what JAL wrote, I would like to share with you guys and girls, how this serpent looks in my imagination.ltroifanatic wrote:I'm curious about the parasite that's infected Eli.Is it sentient?And if so has it a personality?Emotions?..Is it a one-off mutation that's evolved in parallel with humans or is it maybe a mutation of human origin? Sometimes it seems Eli talks to it and it talks back?..Sometimes it seems it can take over Eli.Has Eli's love for Oskar made it possible for him to gain control in as much as he would never hurt Oskar?..Finally if even a tiny percentage of infected survived mishaps and suicide, taking into account their longevity and insatiable hunger ,wouldn't there be lots and lots of vampires? I apologise if I've gotten the above observations wrong.I often amalgamate the book,movie and FF and end up with a weird hybrid lol. .Any thoughts or opinions?
Last edited by artredfield1999 on Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
- ltroifanatic
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Re: What is "it"?
Wow.Good pic.Got chills down my spine just looking at it.Thanks..
Please Oskar.Be me for a little while.
Re: What is "it"?
I recon JAL might have overplayed his hand in attempting to give too much detail and explanation to Eli's condition..... much like the blood bath stuff among others. For me, the obvious thing is that Eli's condition is a reflection of Hakan's condition in that both are possessed by demons that they would rather not have but are incapable of controlling. In that sense they are blood-brothers [pardon the pun] and this explains why Eli respects and has affection for Hakan... because they are both so much alike.
It's probably not the first time that an author has wandered off into unnecessary details that adds nothing to a novel's value, and certainly not the last.
It's probably not the first time that an author has wandered off into unnecessary details that adds nothing to a novel's value, and certainly not the last.
- OskarTheArsonist
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Re: What is "it"?
I think your half right. While we in the case of elie when oskar first wanted to mix blood eli lost control and had to fight off the parasite that wanted to presumably eat oskar. With Hakan however when he corners Eli in the club house it seemed it had mostly sexual desires for him.ltroifanatic wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:07 amZombie ants..ewww.Maybe I'm over thinking it.The parasite in Eli may be like the parasite that attacks the ants.A thing of total instinct.Evolved not to think but to eat and procreate.No emotions, just doing what it has evolved to do.Prey on a very specific host (us).
"the quieter you become, the more you are able to hear"
- ltroifanatic
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Re: What is "it"?
Hi Oskar.Welcome to the party.As stated earlier there is no cure for the infection and it sounds like you got it good. Don't worry though.It's a beautiful infection.Have you viewed the movie?..IMHO it's a work of art.I'm sure if you haven't you will.Again welcome.
Please Oskar.Be me for a little while.
- OskarTheArsonist
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Re: What is "it"?
Thank you and wich movie are you talking about? I have seen the moive LTROI wich is actually the reason I found out about the book. I have not yet seen Let Me In if that is what you mean since I cant see how they make a masterpiece like this any better.ltroifanatic wrote: ↑Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:16 amHi Oskar.Welcome to the party.As stated earlier there is no cure for the infection and it sounds like you got it good. Don't worry though.It's a beautiful infection.Have you viewed the movie?..IMHO it's a work of art.I'm sure if you haven't you will.Again welcome.
"the quieter you become, the more you are able to hear"