Memories of the Castle

For discussion of John Ajvide Lindqvist's novel Låt den rätte komma in
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Drakeule
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Re: Memories of the Castle

Post by Drakeule » Tue Apr 05, 2016 3:59 am

jkwilliams wrote:
When Elias was finally on his own and had to kill for himself he may have been just as tortured by guilt as the others. The difference was he was still a child and couldn't bring himself to commit suicide the way an adult would. So he dealt with it in his own way. He became Eli.

Eli is a survivor. Someone who can deal with any problem and do whatever is necessary to live. A person not bound by the rules anymore so they can be whatever they want to be. Even if that means being "nothing". Eli is everything Elias could never be.

He may not have physically killed himself but he had to let Elias die in order to live.
This philosophy is too good to argue. But Eli's will to live outweighed his depression to die. He was too young to ever consider it. (If you don't consider the basement scene) That part seemed out of place, considering he had more to live for at this point than ever.

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God of Vampires
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Re: Memories of the Castle

Post by God of Vampires » Wed Apr 06, 2016 12:39 am

Hi, well I accidently stumbled on the site after all these years and I am glad to see it still active. Intresting theory anyway, it is true, Eli's memories do seem vivid for something that happened such a long time ago. I also do see Eli as a survivor that would do whatever it takes to guarantee his own survival. Unique in the sense he has managed to both keep the guilt over killing humans and stay alive. Otherwise I would imagine most vampires who does not kill themselves slowly but surely with each person they kill grow more and more cold until they lose all empathy for their victims and no longer care. In a sense, when a vampire accepts being a monster is when they truly loses their grasp of their humanity. That is at least how I think a certain vampire lord becomes the monster Eli remember from the castle. In a way, it is empathy for others that makes us human, as such a vampire who still feels guilt is more human than a human that kills without remorse, even if they do consider their murders justified for ideological reasons.
"I think Eli, just as me, is a fan of multicoloured equines. You need this to get through an eternity of bloodshed."
_God of Vampires/Prince Darkmoon, Proud infected, proud brony.

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ltroifanatic
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Re: Memories of the Castle

Post by ltroifanatic » Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:32 am

I think the real horror of the story is that Eli can never forget the countless victims she's killed and she suffers continually.Her child's spark of humanity keeping the memories alive for eternity.If she had been a little older she would be able to suicide or blank out those memories with psychosis but she can't.Thank god for Oskar who seems to give her relief from her horror.
Please Oskar.Be me for a little while.

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gkmoberg1
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Re: Memories of the Castle

Post by gkmoberg1 » Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:36 am

God of Vampires wrote:Hi, well I accidently stumbled on the site after all these years and I am glad to see it still active.
Congratulations on stumbling in our direction. You've been missed! (How could we forget one of our terrific fan-fic authors?) Welcome - I am curious how you think of all this now, after a couple years. Also, yes, agree with your view of slowly fading humanity.

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God of Vampires
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Re: Memories of the Castle

Post by God of Vampires » Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:54 am

ltroifanatic wrote:I think the real horror of the story is that Eli can never forget the countless victims she's killed and she suffers continually.Her child's spark of humanity keeping the memories alive for eternity.If she had been a little older she would be able to suicide or blank out those memories with psychosis but she can't.Thank god for Oskar who seems to give her relief from her horror.
That I never thought about. Maybe she does remember her victims better because of her condition as a vampire. Thats horrific to remember all of that in detail :( .

Though from what I understand, the more you can manage to dehumanize your victims, the easier it would be for a vampire to handle the guilt. Therefore, the more they know about a victim the more human they would seem and therefore their death would cause more guilt. There is a reason propaganda nearly always serve to demonize the opposition, to make the enemy seem less human than they are.
gkmoberg1 wrote:
God of Vampires wrote:Hi, well I accidently stumbled on the site after all these years and I am glad to see it still active.
Congratulations on stumbling in our direction. You've been missed! (How could we forget one of our terrific fan-fic authors?) Welcome - I am curious how you think of all this now, after a couple years. Also, yes, agree with your view of slowly fading humanity.
Thank you, glad to see someone remembering my fanfic, that was actually the reason I stumbled on the site again. I was searching on the title of my novel on google, my fanfic is the first hit apparently. Being here feels kinda nostalgic to me by this point. I first became a fan of LTROI when I was a teen, it have to have been almost a decade since I last read the book. Despite all these years having past I do still have fond memories of the story. I still consider it to be a literary masterpiece as I see more nuance to it than ever before. One thing that does really impress me about LTROI is that it is a story without any clear good guys or bad guys. Eli somehow manage to serve the role of the killer as well as a best friend to Oskar for example, meaning that in literary terms it is possible to interpret him as both a protagonist and the antagonist of the story at the same time. I have seen alot of different people have very different interpretations of the story over the years.
"I think Eli, just as me, is a fan of multicoloured equines. You need this to get through an eternity of bloodshed."
_God of Vampires/Prince Darkmoon, Proud infected, proud brony.

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PeteMork
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Re: Memories of the Castle

Post by PeteMork » Wed Apr 06, 2016 2:34 pm

God of Vampires wrote:...Thank you, glad to see someone remembering my fanfic, that was actually the reason I stumbled on the site again. I was searching on the title of my novel on google, my fanfic is the first hit apparently. Being here feels kinda nostalgic to me by this point. I first became a fan of LTROI when I was a teen, it have to have been almost a decade since I last read the book. Despite all these years having past I do still have fond memories of the story. I still consider it to be a literary masterpiece as I see more nuance to it than ever before. One thing that does really impress me about LTROI is that it is a story without any clear good guys or bad guys. Eli somehow manage to serve the role of the killer as well as a best friend to Oskar for example, meaning that in literary terms it is possible to interpret him as both a protagonist and the antagonist of the story at the same time. I have seen alot of different people have very different interpretations of the story over the years.
I agree with GK. Good to see you back! And thinking hard, as usual. I always enjoyed your FF. It was some of the most interesting and intense stuff on the site, and inspired many interesting discussions.

It's good to hear you're still infected; at least a bit. ;)
We never stop reading, although every book comes to an end, just as we never stop living, although death is certain. (Roberto Bolaño)

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God of Vampires
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Re: Memories of the Castle

Post by God of Vampires » Wed Apr 06, 2016 2:51 pm

PeteMork wrote:
God of Vampires wrote:...Thank you, glad to see someone remembering my fanfic, that was actually the reason I stumbled on the site again. I was searching on the title of my novel on google, my fanfic is the first hit apparently. Being here feels kinda nostalgic to me by this point. I first became a fan of LTROI when I was a teen, it have to have been almost a decade since I last read the book. Despite all these years having past I do still have fond memories of the story. I still consider it to be a literary masterpiece as I see more nuance to it than ever before. One thing that does really impress me about LTROI is that it is a story without any clear good guys or bad guys. Eli somehow manage to serve the role of the killer as well as a best friend to Oskar for example, meaning that in literary terms it is possible to interpret him as both a protagonist and the antagonist of the story at the same time. I have seen alot of different people have very different interpretations of the story over the years.
I agree with GK. Good to see you back! And thinking hard, as usual. I always enjoyed your FF. It was some of the most interesting and intense stuff on the site, and inspired many interesting discussions.

It's good to hear you're still infected; at least a bit. ;)
Yeah, it is hard to forget a place I have so many fond memories of. That fanfic remains to this day the only piece of writing I have ever finished, I have done like 3 drafts of my novel though. It is kinda hard to write with carpal tunnel however, thankfully this condition is much better now than it was years ago. I do remember your fanfiction was rather good as well PeteMork.
"I think Eli, just as me, is a fan of multicoloured equines. You need this to get through an eternity of bloodshed."
_God of Vampires/Prince Darkmoon, Proud infected, proud brony.

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Ash
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Re: Memories of the Castle

Post by Ash » Sun Apr 10, 2016 8:46 am

"Yes. But... when I say sleep I mean that there are months at a time when I don't... get up at all. And then a few months when I. . . live. But then I rest during the daytime."
"Is that how it works?"
"I don't know. That's how it is with me at any rate. And then when I wake up I'm ... little again."


This is obviously not your average 12 year old and as sleep affects one's metabolism and memory one can only guess at how Eli operates. The "little again's" could be both a physical and psychological renewing and result in the loss of memories not immediately associated with day-to-day survival. God only knows. Granted that memories of traumatic events would remain.
But when Eli sleeps does she dream? Do vampires dream? I'd love to know what she dreams about..... but it's probably not nice stuff.... unless it's about Oskar.

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metoo
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Re: Memories of the Castle

Post by metoo » Sun Apr 10, 2016 3:37 pm

Ash wrote:But when Eli sleeps does she dream? Do vampires dream?
I think not. Assuming that Virginia's experience is characteristic of Eliform vampires, their human brains are completely shut down during resting. No brain activity => no dreams.
But from the beginning Eli was just Eli. Nothing. Anything. And he is still a mystery to me. John Ajvide Lindqvist

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cmfireflies
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Re: Memories of the Castle

Post by cmfireflies » Sun Apr 10, 2016 4:36 pm

God of Vampires wrote:ltroifanatic wrote:
I think the real horror of the story is that Eli can never forget the countless victims she's killed and she suffers continually.Her child's spark of humanity keeping the memories alive for eternity.If she had been a little older she would be able to suicide or blank out those memories with psychosis but she can't.Thank god for Oskar who seems to give her relief from her horror.

That I never thought about. Maybe she does remember her victims better because of her condition as a vampire. Thats horrific to remember all of that in detail .

Though from what I understand, the more you can manage to dehumanize your victims, the easier it would be for a vampire to handle the guilt. Therefore, the more they know about a victim the more human they would seem and therefore their death would cause more guilt. There is a reason propaganda nearly always serve to demonize the opposition, to make the enemy seem less human than they are.
I don't think Eli is quite so tortured by the victims she kills, if only because she was so young when turned. It's like she didn't have enough time to become properly socialized and really know the value of human life. And Oskar too, to a lesser extent, his contact with people boils down to family, strangers, and tormentors. I think that makes it easier to accept Eli. Eli is a loved one, the rest of people don't really matter because they are either apathetic or downright cruel.
"When is a monster not a monster? Oh, when you love it."

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