Vampire Glamour

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Wolfchild
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Re: Vampire Glamour

Post by Wolfchild » Wed Feb 03, 2010 3:21 am

DMt. wrote:I think I might already have said rather more than enough...I don't want to bring trouble to Wolfie's excellent forum.
This is indeed a good point to turn aside from this topic.
...the story derives a lot of its appeal from its sense of despair and a darkness in which the love of Eli and Oskar seems to shine with a strange and disturbing light.
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Re: Vampire Glamour

Post by sauvin » Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:24 am

I'm not satisfied Eli has the ability to project her will Dracula-style with her luminescent eyes. In the novel she can project memories via physical contact, specifically in a kiss, but I don't remember any strong indication otherwise. Eli's "glamour" in that sense is in the force of will she can project, just as any of us can, and in her appearance.

I've seen her physical beauty and diminutive stature cited as vampiric glamours but agree with some of the other posters in this thread that these characteristics have nothing to do with vampirism possibly apart from having been factors in the original decision to turn her. They existed while she was still fully naturally human.

One thing I don't see mentioned while we enumerate possible glamours is her sex appeal. Distasteful as this fact may be to many forum members, a great many Hakan-like men see her in these terms.

She's apparently had to capitalise on it more than once, and just as apparently with varying degrees of success. "I love you", she tells Hakan in the novel, to which Hakan basically responds "Pfft. You love me only to the extent that I help keep you alive" (if I'm remembering properly). That whole conversation could be seen as Eli's transparently desperate attempt to capitalise on her charms in order to avoid having to hunt for herself, still being "weak" presumable from a recent hibernation; her primary "glamour" in this context is failing her.

(It could also be suggested that Hakan's rebuffing this "love" is a relfection of his own inner mirror telling him he can't be loved, or that Eli may actually be sincere in the "love" being professed but doesn't actually know what she's talking about.)

This is related to some other issues it occurs to me today Eli would face if her vampirism were to be "cured", taken completely away. Assuming a cure completely removes all physical traces of the vampire, and she's completely "normal" again, her reliance on her small stature and sexual appeal to such men would quickly evaporate. "The big Two Five isn't very far away, and a girl has to think of her retirement", notes a twentysomething Kelly Bundy (Married, With Children, an American sitcom about a disfunctional family), as well she should: those cute little buns won't be so cute or so little for very much longer as she resumes a normal human aging progression, and she'll naturally gain height. She may always retain physical beauty, but it may not be the kind that can blind Hakan-like men enough to ease her survival.

Her having had to rely on this particular glamour so often for so long is strongly related both to the psychological damage she has to contend with, secondary to the grimness that is dinnertime, and to her prospects in a contemplated post-vampiric state, is disastrous. It's left her with grossly distorted perspective on human nature and a truly Stygian feel for simple social contact.

I need to quit thinking about this. Further down this road I go, more it seems a frank miracle Oskar survived at all. Just how the [deleted] did Eli manage to put all that garbage aside long enough for Oskar to open her door!?

Edit: 5 Novembre 2011, replaced a "bad word" with [deleted] to comply with renewed restrictions on language.
Last edited by sauvin on Sun Nov 06, 2011 12:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vampire Glamour

Post by a_contemplative_life » Wed Feb 03, 2010 11:36 am

sauvin wrote:I'm not satisfied Eli has the ability to project her will Dracula-style with her luminescent eyes. In the novel she can project memories via physical contact, specifically in a kiss, but I don't remember any strong indication otherwise. Eli's "glamour" in that sense is in the force of will she can project, just as any of us can, and in her appearance.
I would urge you to go back & re-read the parts of the novel where she interacts with the woman with cancer and the receptionist at the hospital. Especially with the former, I think something unusual is intended.
sauvin wrote:One thing I don't see mentioned while we enumerate possible glamours is her sex appeal. Distasteful as this fact may be to many forum members, a great many Hakan-like men see her in these terms.

She's apparently had to capitalise on it more than once, and just as apparently with varying degrees of success. "I love you", she tells Hakan in the novel, to which Hakan basically responds "Pfft. You love me only to the extent that I help keep you alive" (if I'm remembering properly). That whole conversation could be seen as Eli's transparently desperate attempt to capitalise on her charms in order to avoid having to hunt for herself, still being "weak" presumable from a recent hibernation; her primary "glamour" in this context is failing her.
I basically viewed Eli's relationship with Hakan a "mutual use" situation. You do something for me, I'll do something for you. Both of them, in their own way, are willing to attempt to dress it up as "love" (Eli is, to a degree, knowingly fooling herself; Hakan just has a profoundly perverse notion of what "love" is). Because of what she needs, Eli finds herself forced to be pragmatic. She must understand what Hakan needs, and do things that will make him want to go out and kill for her. In this case, that means understanding that Hakan is attracted to her child-like body, and being willing to entice Hakan with it. Disgusting and perverted, to be sure. But then again, Eli is a survivor.

Interesting that, assuming Eli does have a preternatural "glamour," that it does not appear to play much of a role in her daily interactions with Hakan. Maybe it wears down over time with continued interaction with a single individual?

sauvin wrote:This is related to some other issues it occurs to me today Eli would face if her vampirism were to be "cured", taken completely away. Assuming a cure completely removes all physical traces of the vampire, and she's completely "normal" again, her reliance on her small stature and sexual appeal to such men would quickly evaporate. . . . She may always retain physical beauty, but it may not be the kind that can blind Hakan-like men enough to ease her survival.
Well, of course, under such a circumstance Eli may end up looking more like a man than a woman, since that is what he started out as. I'm not going to go into the whole question about the castration and its impact on male growth & development.

Hopefully, with Oskar in the picture, a "cured" Eli wouldn't feel the need to rely on physical appearance to sustain a meaningful relationship.

sauvin wrote:Her having had to rely on this particular glamour so often for so long is strongly related both to the psychological damage she has to contend with, secondary to the grimness that is dinnertime, and to her prospects in a contemplated post-vampiric state, is disastrous. It's left her with grossly distorted perspective on human nature and a truly Stygian feel for simple social contact.

I need to quit thinking about this. Further down this road I go, more it seems a frank miracle Oskar survived at all. Just how the hell did Eli manage to put all that garbage aside long enough for Oskar to open her door!?
I agree. That's why I said in another post (http://www.let-the-right-one-in.com/for ... t=40#p5093) that to me, it seems as though Eli would have gone one way or the other a long time ago--she'd either be an unapproachable "animal" with no human tendencies, or she'd have multiple personalities. And even if she wasn't, I think she would need years of therapy to get through all of the trauma. Probably a lifetime of therapy. But that doesn't mean she wouldn't be able to function or have some sort of emotionally satisfying relationship with Oskar. But it would take awhile to undo all that damage. And who knows--maybe (hopefully) Hakan was the first pedophile who came along in her life. We just don't really know.
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Re: Vampire Glamour

Post by Wolfchild » Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:37 pm

sauvin wrote:I've seen her physical beauty and diminutive stature cited as vampiric glamours but agree with some of the other posters in this thread that these characteristics have nothing to do with vampirism possibly apart from having been factors in the original decision to turn her. They existed while she was still fully naturally human.
I was making comments along these lines, and if it was my comments that you are referring to, I guess I didn't do a good job of saying what I wanted to. Eli being beautiful was necessary to his creation - not by the man in the wig but by JAL. JAL saw to it that Eli was a beautiful boy, and I believe that this is so for a reason: A vampire without glamour, an ugly vampire, an ugly Eli, would just not be compelling. The very title, Let The Right One In, implies that there is some sort of seduction going on, and indeed there is. Not an erotic seduction but an emotional seduction or a moral seduction (both of which happen between Eli and Oskar during the course of the story). "Glamour", as the term is used in this thread, must be present for such seduction to take place.
Just how the hell did Eli manage to put all that garbage aside long enough for Oskar to open her door!?
This is indeed one of the main fascinations of this story, I think.
a_contemplative_life wrote:And who knows--maybe (hopefully) Hakan was the first pedophile who came along in her life. We just don't really know.
No, the first was likely the man in the wig and/or his jovial assistant.
...the story derives a lot of its appeal from its sense of despair and a darkness in which the love of Eli and Oskar seems to shine with a strange and disturbing light.
-Lacenaire

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Re: Vampire Glamour

Post by lombano » Wed Feb 03, 2010 3:00 pm

sauvin wrote:
One thing I don't see mentioned while we enumerate possible glamours is her sex appeal. Distasteful as this fact may be to many forum members, a great many Hakan-like men see her in these terms.
Is that separate from Eli's physical beauty, though? Is it that Eli looks like a pretty child and in most adults this awakens sympathy or parent-like/older sibling-like reactions, but awakens lust in people like Hakan, or is it something different?
Wolfchild wrote:Eli being beautiful was necessary to his creation - not by the man in the wig but by JAL. JAL saw to it that Eli was a beautiful boy, and I believe that this is so for a reason: A vampire without glamour, an ugly vampire, an ugly Eli, would just not be compelling. The very title, Let The Right One In, implies that there is some sort of seduction going on, and indeed there is. Not an erotic seduction but an emotional seduction or a moral seduction (both of which happen between Eli and Oskar during the course of the story). "Glamour", as the term is used in this thread, must be present for such seduction to take place.
For me if anything the story would work better if Eli were average-looking, but that's just me. The physical beauty does add to Eli's backstory, but the love story would if anything be better if Eli were average-looking. But it helps that Eli is so unglamorous in the conventional modern sense.
Wolfchild wrote:
Just how the hell did Eli manage to put all that garbage aside long enough for Oskar to open her door!?
This is indeed one of the main fascinations of this story, I think.
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Wolfchild wrote:
a_contemplative_life wrote:And who knows--maybe (hopefully) Hakan was the first pedophile who came along in her life. We just don't really know.
No, the first was likely the man in the wig and/or his jovial assistant.
This is kind of implied in the book. It is also implied there have been others that have helped Eli for such reasons.
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Re: Vampire Glamour

Post by Aurora » Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:55 pm

sauvin wrote:I need to quit thinking about this. Further down this road I go, more it seems a frank miracle Oskar survived at all. Just how the hell did Eli manage to put all that garbage aside long enough for Oskar to open her door!?
This point is crucial to any story that involves a vampire/human relationship, there must be something special or different about this particular human that stops them from being considered as food. I'm reminded of something Spike said in an episode of Buffy describing people as "happy meals on legs".

Regarding what a_c_l said about Eli being able to influence on people, going on what is in the book this does appear to be true. Although if that is the case then why didn't she make him invite her in when he was being difficult that time she visited him?
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Re: Vampire Glamour

Post by covenant6452 » Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:26 pm

Aurora wrote: Regarding what a_c_l said about Eli being able to influence on people, going on what is in the book this does appear to be true. Although if that is the case then why didn't she make him invite her in when he was being difficult that time she visited him?
I agree that Eli had something and used it a few times in the book, by touch with the old lady, Hakan when they met Eli allowed his hand to remain on her leg, and Oskar showing things to him through touch, also the lights in her eyes. All that having been mentioned here before, I think that by the time she knocked on his door, there was enough of an attraction between them that she wouldn't have used it on him. Other than to show him a memory, or a prophetic vision of a tall handsome, pure Oskar.
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Re: Vampire Glamour

Post by DMt. » Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:48 pm

In JAL's world, telepathy seems to be natural.

I have long believed, or perhaps I should say suspected, that all the other inhabitants of Earth share in a common non-verbal communication, which we humans have lost sight of because of our fascination with language and concept, but which is still going on underneath all that.

Figures like 10-7% for the language component of [live, interpersonal] communication between people tend to reinforce this view. The rest is body language, pheromones, ambience, facial cues, and, well, plain old telepathy.
Last edited by DMt. on Wed Feb 03, 2010 11:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Vampire Glamour

Post by gattoparde59 » Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:01 pm

Aurora wrote:Regarding what a_c_l said about Eli being able to influence on people, going on what is in the book this does appear to be true. Although if that is the case then why didn't she make him invite her in when he was being difficult that time she visited him?
I take this to mean Eli is not using voodoo on Oskar. I don't really know what is going through Eli's mind at that point, but I see it as part of Eli's anxiety about Oskar. Oskar is being mean to Eli here and I think Eli is trying to find out whether Oskar really likes him or not.

I think that is why the glamour question is so intriguing. It is really Eli's doubts, as well as Oskar's that are being dramatized.

I'll break open the story and tell you what is there. Then, like the others that have fallen out onto the sand, I will finish with it, and the wind will take it away.

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Re: Vampire Glamour

Post by DMt. » Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:52 pm

Voodoo is puny compared to Love, I reckons. This LTROI love is so beautiful because it asserts itself over and above all the fear and horror of the scenario.

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