Eli's worldliness (spoiler)

For discussion of John Ajvide Lindqvist's novel Låt den rätte komma in
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metoo
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Re: Eli's worldliness (spoiler)

Post by metoo » Thu Mar 31, 2016 4:47 am

banjoist123 wrote: It seems that I read somewhere, perhaps on this site, that Swedish has a neutral pronoun that is neither "her" nor "him" that would allow for this ambiguity. Can someone corroborate this for me?
This has been discussed several times on this forum. Here's one example: http://www.let-the-right-one-in.com/for ... =10#p85912

Here's another one: http://www.let-the-right-one-in.com/for ... 664#p83815

Yet another one: http://www.let-the-right-one-in.com/for ... 40#p108269

Here's the Google search I used to find those (and several more): https://www.google.com/webhp?hl=sv#hl=s ... 2Fforum%2F
But from the beginning Eli was just Eli. Nothing. Anything. And he is still a mystery to me. John Ajvide Lindqvist

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gkmoberg1
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Re: Eli's worldliness (spoiler)

Post by gkmoberg1 » Thu Mar 31, 2016 4:49 pm

metoo wrote:
banjoist123 wrote: It seems that I read somewhere, perhaps on this site, that Swedish has a neutral pronoun that is neither "her" nor "him" that would allow for this ambiguity. Can someone corroborate this for me?
This has been discussed several times on this forum. Here's one example: http://www.let-the-right-one-in.com/for ... =10#p85912

Here's another one: http://www.let-the-right-one-in.com/for ... 664#p83815

Yet another one: http://www.let-the-right-one-in.com/for ... 40#p108269

Here's the Google search I used to find those (and several more): https://www.google.com/webhp?hl=sv#hl=s ... 2Fforum%2F
As a speaker of German and English I've long been piqued by this ability of Swedish. Avoiding he/she/him/her/his/hers for any length in English -and the equivalents in German- is tricky and awkward. I've tried to write in this manner but found it not only to be difficult to accomplish but also results in a text that feels stilted. This reflexive pronoun construct that Swedish provides, thus, is very curious. Plus, the determinate form as shown by metoo helps. That JAL wrote such a novel, taking care to avoid pinning down Eli's gender for such a long stretch is admirable. ... At some point I hope to read the Swedish version of LTROI and enjoy this all directly.

If you have an interest, you should try any of the free language learning offerings to be found on the web; several include Swedish as an option. This is how I came to get a first-hand understanding of the Swedish language's approach. It's remarkable.

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God of Vampires
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Re: Eli's worldliness (spoiler)

Post by God of Vampires » Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:35 am

There is a pretty obvious reason in addition to his lack of physical development why Eli has pretty much no intrest in sex. Just ask any other eunuch. Add in way too much time dealing with pedophiles and it is obvious why he might have a negative impression of sexuality.

I think the novel brings up a good contrast between the relationship of Oskar and Eli and Håkan and Eli. While the relationship of Oskar and Eli transcend physical attraction, Håkan and Eli is one of the most toxic relationships I have ever seen, even beyond the fact Håkan is a pedophile. This is for one primary reason, bnoth parts just use eachother to get what they want and neither really wants to do what the other want. Yes, I did just say both parts is at fault here, while Håkans loyalty to Eli cannot be disputed(It takes alot of loyalty to willingly pour acid over your face), yet there is a certain amount of selfishness in wanting certain favours from Eli with no concern for how he feels about it. Eli is not much better as Håkan is barely more than an means to an end, a weak willed and desperate man manipulated by an immortal vampire to do unspeakable acts so Eli does not have to. This type of relationship with both sides using the other was probably the only type of relationship Eli knew before Oskar. Something that must be kept in mind when considering Eli's view of relationships with anyone older than Oskar.

As for Oskar and Eli, well, first reading the book during my teen years has shaped my view of relationships as well. Something that can be noticed in me having dated a few pre op transgirls despite being straight. Yes, the sexual aspect of the relationship does not really work, but it is still possible to have a functional relationship. Sex is in my view a wonderful thing in the right circumstances, but it is not strictly neccesary for a relationship. I do feel too many men are too obsessed with genders, a reason while many do call me gay, not being able to comprehend me dating someone I am not sexually attracted to.
"I think Eli, just as me, is a fan of multicoloured equines. You need this to get through an eternity of bloodshed."
_God of Vampires/Prince Darkmoon, Proud infected, proud brony.

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Re: Eli's worldliness (spoiler)

Post by gkmoberg1 » Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:39 pm

Yes- in the relationship with Håkan, Eli expresses both a confusion about what he thinks should be a normal relation and he drives the relationship in a way that suits himself. I usually attribute this to his very young age; he has a simple understanding of what these relationships are going to be and how they are going to proceed. But you make a good point that this relationship is likely much like others he has had for a long time. He has allowed this type of relationship, perhaps, to become the default expectation he takes in hand as he sets up the next relationship.

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