Eli's Strength?

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epicfan84
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Eli's Strength?

Post by epicfan84 » Fri Jul 17, 2015 11:08 pm

So when zombie Hakan and Eli are in the basement and Hakan tackles him to the ground, Hakan somehow overpowers Eli and rips tendons and such. Why wasn't Eli able to just throw Hakan off of him if he has superhuman strength? Hakan is also incredibly strong as he bludgeons Eli's ear off. With all that being said, what makes other vampires stronger than others? Is strength related to physique? It certainly isn't to age because Eli is wayyyy older than Hakan. Anybody have a theory?
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a_contemplative_life
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Re: Eli's Strength?

Post by a_contemplative_life » Fri Jul 17, 2015 11:56 pm

Maybe it relates to the person's physique before they are turned. I mean, there is no indication that the turning itself makes the newly undead person into a muscle-bound gorilla that they were not before.
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Drakeule
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Re: Eli's Strength?

Post by Drakeule » Sat Jul 18, 2015 12:25 am

Even if they were of equal strength, Eli was taken by surprise, and put into an awkward position. His legs were too damaged to get proper footing.
Last edited by Drakeule on Sat Jul 18, 2015 5:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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EEA
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Re: Eli's Strength?

Post by EEA » Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:46 am

I agree. Eli was surprised to see Hakan. Was probably shocked to see him. And in that moment Hakan attacked Eli.

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metoo
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Re: Eli's Strength?

Post by metoo » Sat Jul 18, 2015 4:04 am

epicfan84 wrote:So when zombie Hakan and Eli are in the basement and Hakan tackles him to the ground, Hakan somehow overpowers Eli and rips tendons and such. Why wasn't Eli able to just throw Hakan off of him if he has superhuman strength? Hakan is also incredibly strong as he bludgeons Eli's ear off. With all that being said, what makes other vampires stronger than others? Is strength related to physique? It certainly isn't to age because Eli is wayyyy older than Hakan. Anybody have a theory?
An idea I've got about Eli's superhuman strength is that he might not have it always. It might be similar to his healing, i.e. that he can actively promote it. There is a clue in the novel that this might be so, when Eli prepares to attack zombie Håkan:

"Eli koncentrerade allt av styrka han hade till sin högerarm, knöt näven."
"Eli concentrated all the strength he had into his right arm, closed his fist." My translation.

I like this idea, since it puts a restriction on Eli's superhumanity and invincibility. His resources are limited and he needs to spend them wisely.
But from the beginning Eli was just Eli. Nothing. Anything. And he is still a mystery to me. John Ajvide Lindqvist

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epicfan84
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Re: Eli's Strength?

Post by epicfan84 » Sat Jul 18, 2015 4:21 am

metoo wrote:
epicfan84 wrote:So when zombie Hakan and Eli are in the basement and Hakan tackles him to the ground, Hakan somehow overpowers Eli and rips tendons and such. Why wasn't Eli able to just throw Hakan off of him if he has superhuman strength? Hakan is also incredibly strong as he bludgeons Eli's ear off. With all that being said, what makes other vampires stronger than others? Is strength related to physique? It certainly isn't to age because Eli is wayyyy older than Hakan. Anybody have a theory?
An idea I've got about Eli's superhuman strength is that he might not have it always. It might be similar to his healing, i.e. that he can actively promote it. There is a clue in the novel that this might be so, when Eli prepares to attack zombie Håkan:

"Eli koncentrerade allt av styrka han hade till sin högerarm, knöt näven."
"Eli concentrated all the strength he had into his right arm, closed his fist." My translation.

I like this idea, since it puts a restriction on Eli's superhumanity and invincibility. His resources are limited and he needs to spend them wisely.
Hmm very interesting take. Might have missed it because I've only read the english version. I've heard the translating isn't fantastic.
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Ash
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Re: Eli's Strength?

Post by Ash » Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:38 am

"Eli looked up into the top of the tree, along five six meters of smooth tree trunk. Kicked off her shoes. Thought herself new hands, new feet."
It would seem that Eli obviously puts conscious thought into transforming her physical form, and strength would be part of this.
I think that Eli's ability to physically transform should be seen as completely separate from killing machine Eli. The later she has little control over.
And although Eli consciously sets up her killings, and there must be a point at which child Eli intentionally lets go and permits murder to unfold, I think the actual killings are not done by her.

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Re: Eli's Strength?

Post by metoo » Sat Jul 18, 2015 12:48 pm

Ash wrote:It would seem that Eli obviously puts conscious thought into transforming her physical form, and strength would be part of this.
I think that Eli's ability to physically transform should be seen as completely separate from killing machine Eli. The later she has little control over.
And although Eli consciously sets up her killings, and there must be a point at which child Eli intentionally lets go and permits murder to unfold, I think the actual killings are not done by her.
This is not entirely clear. Virginia's experience supports this view, as does Eli's behaviour in front of Oscars bleeding hand in the basement. However, in the episode with the cancerous woman, (the human part of) Eli seems to be the agent all the time:

Ett svagt pipande; kvinnans andning. Eli lutade sig ner, höll sin näsa tätt intill kvinnans pulsåder. Tvål, svett, doft av gammal hud … den där sjukshuslukten … nånting mer, som var kvinnans egen lukt. Och under, igenom allt detta: blodet.
Kvinnan gnydde när Elis näsa nuddade vid hennes hals, började vrida på huvudet, men Eli tog ett fast grepp med ena handen runt kvinnans armar och bröst, höll med den andra fast hennes huvud. Öppnade munnen så mycket det gick, förde den ner mot kvinnans hals tills tungan pressades mot pulsådern och bet ihop. Låste käkarna.

A soft wheezing; the woman's breathing. Eli leaned forward, held (his/her) nose close to the woman's artery. Soap, sweat, the scent of old skin … that hospital odour … something more, that was the woman's own scent. And bellow, though all this: the blood.
The woman whimpered when Eli's nose touched her neck, started turning her head, but Eli took a firm grip with one arm around the woman's arms and chest, held with the other one around her head. Opened (his/her) mouth as much as it went, lowered it towards the woman's neck until (his/her) tongue was pressed against the artery and bit. Locked (his/her) jaws.
My translation.
But from the beginning Eli was just Eli. Nothing. Anything. And he is still a mystery to me. John Ajvide Lindqvist

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Ash
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Re: Eli's Strength?

Post by Ash » Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:11 pm

That's a good point metoo.
It would appear that Eli was child Eli all the way though the murder. However JAL only allows us to see it as an observer with some first person sensory input from Eli herself.
There could be a point, a moment in time, between a "desperately hungry child Eli" and "Eli her tongue pressed against the artery and bit down." where she became not herself. I very fine point in time albeit. Perhaps even before this point she was "not herself".
If we are to assume she is eternally 12 year old, it's difficult to imagine a child doing this and remain at the same time a child and not something evil within her that takes control. That snaps back to childhood and lucidity and humanity when morphine is tasted. Otherwise we are left with a scenario where Eli has little room to distance herself between child and cold blooded heartless murderer, in fact no distance or difference whatsoever between the two.
My contention is that Eli is no longer that cognitive 12 year old as she murders all and sundry, and the novel suggests there is an internal organ within her that assumes responsibility for that act.

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metoo
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Re: Eli's Strength?

Post by metoo » Sat Jul 18, 2015 5:48 pm

Ash wrote:My contention is that Eli is no longer that cognitive 12 year old as she murders all and sundry, and the novel suggests there is an internal organ within her that assumes responsibility for that act.
Thats debatable. Rather, I think Eli does take the responsibility for his acts. When Oskar blurts But you kill people, Eli doesn't blame some separate agent living inside him. Instead he replies:
"Ja. Jag dödar folk. Det är tråkigt."
"Yes. I kill people. Unfortunately." Translation found here.

But perhaps you and I use the term take/assume responsibility differently here. Maybe you meant it in a concrete way, i.e. that the infection controls Eli's actions during feeding, while I was speaking about a moral responsibility. Those are not completely incompatible. Eli might accept his moral guilt while still not controlling himself all the time.

However, the actual killing still is Eli's doing. There are indices that Eli's victims don't die because of him feeding off them. They die because Eli kills them afterwards, to keep them from becoming vampires. When Håkan wanted Eli to feed on him, Eli objected:
"Då måste jag … döda dig. Sen."
"Then I will have to … kill you. Afterwards." My translation.
But from the beginning Eli was just Eli. Nothing. Anything. And he is still a mystery to me. John Ajvide Lindqvist

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