In which part we do find out about Eli?

[Doctor Mak]

Dunno if is necessary to say but... this post contains Spoilers.

I got a version of the book translated to my language and finally decided to read it (I only watched the movie), but I think it may have some translation mistakes because Eli's gender is very clear since the beginning of the story, right after Oskar and Eli first meet in a dialogue between Eli and Hakan. So in which part we do find out about Eli's gender? I'm not finding the words to explain why I think the translators messed things up, but if anyone just answer my question it will help me.

Thanks in advance.

[metoo]

Dunno if is necessary to say but... this post contains Spoilers.

I got a version of the book translated to my language and finally decided to read it (I only watched the movie), but I think it may have some translation mistakes because Eli's gender is very clear since the beginning of the story, right after Oskar and Eli first meet in a dialogue between Eli and Hakan. So in which part we do find out about Eli's gender? I'm not finding the words to explain why I think the translators messed things up, but if anyone just answer my question it will help me.

Thanks in advance.

Eli's gender is revealed bit by bit, but finally in the memory transfer episode in Oskar's living room. It's in the end of chapter "Sunday, November 8 (night)".

[sauvin]

Doctor Mak, what is your language?

[Doctor Mak]

Holy... so it is finally revealed after she get in Oskar's apartment without being invited right? Aw man I knew it, they really did mess the history with the translation

My language is brazilian portuguese.

[metoo]

Since you are new to this forum, you probably haven't read the numerous threads about translation issues in general, and specifically about gender in the Swedish original.

In short, Swedish has a few gender-neutral constructs that JAL used to conceal the gender of Eli in the Swedish original. The effect is that Eli's gender is more ambiguous in the Swedish original than in many translations.

Here is an example.

[Jameron]

Hi, Doctor Mak, welcome to We The Infected

Congrats on reading the novel which is, in my mind, the best version of this story. It's a shame that the translation ruined that "wait ... what?" moment. I had to read that section again just to make sure I had read it right

.

[jcckidz]

I got a version of the book translated to my language and finally decided to read it (I only watched the movie), but I think it may have some translation mistakes because Eli's gender is very clear since the beginning of the story, right after Oskar and Eli first meet in a dialogue between Eli and Hakan. So in which part we do find out about Eli's gender? I'm not finding the words to explain why I think the translators messed things up, but if anyone just answer my question it will help me.

Welcome, it's great to have you!

Did your version refer to Eli in the masculine from the very beginning?

[dongregg]

I got a version of the book translated to my language and finally decided to read it (I only watched the movie), but I think it may have some translation mistakes because Eli's gender is very clear since the beginning of the story, right after Oskar and Eli first meet in a dialogue between Eli and Hakan. So in which part we do find out about Eli's gender? I'm not finding the words to explain why I think the translators messed things up, but if anyone just answer my question it will help me.

Welcome Doctor Mak. I saw your name pop up in "Off Topic," so I know that my welcome is somewhat late. I hope you spend your Christmas gift on something you like a lot!

I gather that most of the forum members are equally into the book and the movie, but I am one of the few who is a "purist" for just the movie. I watch it again and again. I've been studying Swedish for several months and really enjoy getting into the actors more that way, although I generally enjoy the English subtitles and think they are a reasonable compromise.

I feel sorry for you having to read the book in any language in which gender is required to be specific with the pronouns. I like that in the movie there are only three places where Eli's gender is suggested--at the candy kiosk, in Oscar's bedroom, and when Eli puts on Oscar's mother's dress. Not clear in any of the three places what Eli's gender is, only that he/she is neither a girl nor an intact boy. There's one place in the script that uses a gender-specific pronoun about Eli--Virginia tells Lacke, "That kid, she must have infected me." However, I'm still learning Swedish, so I have to depend on dictionaries a lot and I could be wrong. The script says, <Det där barnet, hon måste ha smittat mig.> Of course, even if hon is she, that would just be Virginia's fleeting impression. Either way, it is easy in Swedish to be obscure about gender and seem natural about it. I know from this forum that Eli/Elias is a boy, but it's hard for me to think of Eli/Lina that way. Still, I'm getting more used to it. It is what it is.

Anyway, welcome again, Doctor Mak.

[a_contemplative_life]

I know from this forum that Eli/Elias is a boy, but it's hard for me to think of Eli/Lina that way. Still, I'm getting more used to it. It is what it is.

I'm curious for your opinion--at what point in the film would you say Lina appears the most "boyish"?

[dongregg]

I know from this forum that Eli/Elias is a boy, but it's hard for me to think of Eli/Lina that way. Still, I'm getting more used to it. It is what it is.

I'm curious for your opinion--at what point in the film would you say Lina appears the most "boyish"?

Thanks for your question, a_c_l. Using Amazon streaming version to mark the approximate times:

1:04:59 to 1:05:52. Elias appears most masculine at the bathhouse when he is dressed as a boy--jacket, gloves, wool cap pulled down low. Watching the exchange between Martin and Oskar; Elias sauntering along, loose like a boy, while Oskar skips and kicks his heels; Elias' command of the situation up to when he turns to Oskar and says, "Hurrah."

00:55:07 to 00:58:05. Oskar's bedroom: Elias lets his clothes fall wherever; lying behind Oskar, Elias has a serious demeanor about his mouth and eyes, even though trying to start a game of bulleribock; propped on his elbow at 00:56:13--"What do you mean?"; and especially the tentative way he caresses Oskar's arm--Elias' hand seems large and muscular, especially so when Elias entwines his fingers with Oskar's.

This is a tender scene that could happen between two young boys. I think the main visual elements are the eyebrows, serious demeanor, Elias' self-possession, and the physical appearance of Elias' shoulder and hands. I think, too, that the impression is aided by lack of boy-girl behavior. The words are few and to the point, the way boys talk. There is no coy smiling, no kissing, no hugging and cuddling. As Shakespeare might have written, no "slap and tickle" that often characterizes the mock-aggressive play of boys and girls.

These are impressions I have had all along. I've reviewed the script and parts of the movie, and I'm hard pressed to come up with any more scenes. Elias is really presented as a girl so thoroughly that it's hard to see him any other way throughout almost the whole movie.

I agree with other forum members that casting Lina for the role largely obscures any intended impression of Elias as androgynous. Just using Elif's voice didn't change much. Oh, I will say that Esmeralda Nikolajeff (tree scene around 01:08:38) has a wolfish look of a desperate predator, but the pink sweater confuses that impression. (I'm guessing it's Nikolajeff and not a digitalized Lina.)

I basically think the issue of Elias' gender fails in the film. It plays a puzzling rather than an illuminating role. Nothing in the film hinges on it one way or the other. It doesn't sufficiently account for the fact that Elias is on one relationship track while Oskar is on another. That is accounted for throughout by Oskar not realizing until very late that Elias is a vampire.

I would love to hear your up-to-date thoughts on this. I know it's a topic that you and others have given a lot of attention to on the forum.