Was Eli always Elias?

[PeteMork]

As many times as I've reread parts of the book, I still can't shake the feeling that JAL made the decision to make Eli a boy AFTER he had written a significant portion of the book. In other words, at some point in the process, he may have changed his mind about the direction their relationship was going. I'm not sure why, although I do have a few ideas, but something about the way his 'narrator' described Eli and 'her' relationship with Oskar changed in odd ways after 'Elias' appeared on the scene. Anyone else have this feeling?

[gattoparde59]

I would say no.

We get hints from early on that Eli is a boy, and these hints are not just telling Oskar that he is not a girl.

[PeteMork]

I would say no.

We get hints from early on that Eli is a boy, and these hints are not just telling Oskar that he is not a girl.

QFT, but if I am correct, once JAL made the decision to make Eli a boy, he would have gone back to earlier parts of the novel and made subtle changes to indicate the new direction. My sense of the change is more subtle, in that Eli really is overall portrayed as a girl in the pre-Elias parts of the book by JAL (as the narrator) himself. I didn't see any subtle indications from the 'narrator' that he was a boy in his behavior, until after the big 'reveal'. Then his mannerisms became distinctively boy-like.

[sauvin]

I would say no.

We get hints from early on that Eli is a boy, and these hints are not just telling Oskar that he is not a girl.

QFT, but if I am correct, once JAL made the decision to make Eli a boy, he would have gone back to earlier parts of the novel and made subtle changes to indicate the new direction. My sense of the change is more subtle, in that Eli really is overall portrayed as a girl in the pre-Elias parts of the book by JAL (as the narrator) himself. I didn't see any subtle indications from the 'narrator' that he was a boy in his behavior, until after the big 'reveal'. Then his mannerisms became distinctively boy-like.

Like so many other things about the novel or movie, we could argue about "hints" and "subtle indications" the same way we could argue about entrails and tea leaves. My feeling is that Eli's mannerisms became more distinctively boy-like towards the end because pressures were mounting, and Elias was feeling more and more the need to start taking decisive action to address them.

One pressure, naturally, was that she would very likely have known that time in Blackeberg was going sour - one gets the impression that her entire existence has been a long, unbroken series of Blackebergs - and another pressure was in having developed and in continuing to develop an unexpected and unexpectedly good relationship she just did NOT want to lose.

All that said, I really only see the "boy" when she runs out to take care of Hakan after his escape, and even this could be interpreted as more Mom-like than boy-like. YMMV.

Since I can be so dense sometimes, could somebody maybe point out what mannerisms seen in the novel are "boy-like"?

[PeteMork]

Like so many other things about the novel or movie, we could argue about "hints" and "subtle indications" the same way we could argue about entrails and tea leaves. My feeling is that Eli's mannerisms became more distinctively boy-like towards the end because pressures were mounting, and Elias was feeling more and more the need to start taking decisive action to address them.

One pressure, naturally, was that she would very likely have known that time in Blackeberg was going sour - one gets the impression that her entire existence has been a long, unbroken series of Blackebergs - and another pressure was in having developed and in continuing to develop an unexpected and unexpectedly good relationship she just did NOT want to lose.

All that said, I really only see the "boy" when she runs out to take care of Hakan after his escape, and even this could be interpreted as more Mom-like than boy-like. YMMV.

Since I can be so dense sometimes, could somebody maybe point out what mannerisms seen in the novel are "boy-like"?

Of course it’s difficult to say that a particular mannerism is completely boy-like or girl-like, but here’s my best effort, in support of my theory that JAL changed his mind about Eli’s gender:

Girl-like:

When Oskar stroked Eli’s cheek and she spared his life:
The girl froze for a moment, then pulled back. Her eyes resumed their former shape; the city of light was back.
"What did you do that for?"
"I'm sorry .. . I—"
"What did you do?"

I can’t help but feel that only a girl would have reacted that way if a boy stroked her cheek. Even a twelve-year-old Elias likely would have reacted differently. A boy might feel the empathy but would the reaction be powerful enough to push back the primal urges of a vampire? I’m not trying to overanalyze here, but if JAL had intended her to be a boy in this scene, I would think he could have created a more stereotypical, and thus more realistic, scenario in which a boy would have spared another boy’s life. A twelve-year-old desperately lonely boy would have reacted that way if a nurturing woman stroked his cheek, but a peer? Someone his own age? Again, as a single example it says nothing, but the pattern is the same throughout the novel before the reveal.

When Eli climbed into bed with Oskar the first time:
A cold hand crept over his stomach and found its way to his chest, over his heart. He put both his hands over it, warming her hand. Eli's other hand worked its way under his armpit then up over his chest and in between his hands. Eli turned her head and laid her cheek between his shoulder blades.
And:
With a quiet happiness in his belly, Oskar kept studying the titles of the books. Eli lay still, waiting. After a while she said:
"Is there anything else?"
"No."
"Can't we lie down together again like we did before?"
Oskar rolled around so his back was against her. She put her arms around him and he took her hands. They lay like that until Oskar started to get sleepy.

These actions just feel intensely feminine to me. Again, I’m not saying a boy wouldn’t do it; just that it’s far more likely a girl would. And, of course, sex would not be in the equation at all. From my own experience growing up with three sisters, prepubescent girls are literally brimming with nurturing instincts and love to cuddle. As their prepubescent brother, it was sometimes embarrassing, especially when my friends were around.

Boy-like (after the ‘reveal’)
When they fought:
Suddenly she turned around, threw him off her chest, pushed him up against the back of the couch. He tried to get a grip on her shoulders, but missed, got ahold of her hips, and she landed with her belly right over his face. He threw her off, twisted around, and both of them tried to get ahold of the other.
They rolled around on the couch, wrestling. With tensed muscles and utter concentration. But with care, so that neither would hurt the other. They snaked around each other, bumped against the table.

To me this is a fight between two boys, not between a boy and a girl. Elias was, himself, clearly behaving like a boy. Now this occurred slightly before Eli actually told him she was Elias, but it was during the same scene, only minutes before the ‘reveal.’ JAL had made his decision to make her a boy at this point (if my leaky theory holds any water)


When Eli offers Tommy money for blood:

The girl sat still in the armchair, looking at him. Didn't even smile.
"No, but seriously," Tommy said. "I mean, what?"
"You'll get this money... if I get some blood."
"I don't have any."
"Yes, you do."
"No."
"Yes."
Tommy suddenly got it.
What the hell.. .
"Are you ... serious?"
The girl pointed at the bills.
"It's not dangerous."

And:

She held the three thousand out to him, between index and middle finger. He held each one of them up to the light, checking to make sure that they were genuine. Rolled them into a cylinder that he clenched his left hand around.
"OK. And now?"
The girl put the other two bills on the chair, crouched down next to the couch, dug out the white packet from the kit, shaking out a razor blade.
She's done this before.

This one is a bit harder to explain, because I could easily see a girl doing most of this. But the tone is different. The dialogue seems more abrupt, more no-nonsense than I would normally expect from a girl--even from Eli if she were the same Eli as she was before she was Elias.

Remember, I’m not trying to analyze the imaginary characters in this supposition. I’m trying to understand JAL’s thought processes in developing the novel and a major change he may have made before he finished.

[abner_mohl]

Funny, I happened to be reading that passage yesterday and that was the impression that Eli was suppose to be a girl. I think you are definitely on to something. Maybe JAL is monitoring this post and can give us an answer.

[gattoparde59]

A twelve-year-old desperately lonely boy would have reacted that way if a nurturing woman stroked his cheek, but a peer? Someone his own age? Again, as a single example it says nothing, but the pattern is the same throughout the novel before the reveal.

I have nursed my own shaky theory that Eli actually sees Oskar as a maternal figure. Oskar shows a genuine interest in Eli's physical, as well as emotional state. He notices that Eli stinks, that Eli is not wearing a coat (Oskar even makes a sympathetic gesture towards Eli when he asks about the coat), later he frets over the way Eli picks her clothes out of the trash. These to me are all stereotypical maternal traits. "Arn't you getting enough to eat?" Elsewhere it has been point out that this solicitous attitude makes a stark contrast to Hakan. You hear about none of this from Hakan.

Hakan clearly prefers boys.

The story that Eli tells to the lonely cancer victim is a story about a beautiful boy.

I read Eli's advice about hitting back with the bullies as stereotypically masculine, and we get a hint of the "older, harder" Eli in this scene.

The scene where Eli knights Oskar with a plastic sword, he refuses to play the part of the damsel, instead choosing the role of the "monster."

That the two boys relate to each other through play, rather than simply talking I think is also masculine, especially that wrestling scene mentioned above.

Eli is never quite what she appears to be, and I think that is another hurdle that Oskar has to overcome to love Eli.

[a_contemplative_life]

I don't know if Pete is right or wrong, but it's interesting to see what everyone associates with masculine vs. feminine in this story. Funny, but for some reason I always thought that Eli's messing around with the T-rod (e.g., stealing it from the store to use on Hakan) as distinctly boyish. But really, I think when you sum it all up, that Eli acts somewhere in the middle of a boy and a girl. He's really in the middle somewhere, to my way of thinking. He does boyish things and girlish things. Which I like because it makes him more of a pure "person"--Eli's not one thing or the other; Eli is sort of "all of the above."

[PeteMork]

A twelve-year-old desperately lonely boy would have reacted that way if a nurturing woman stroked his cheek, but a peer? Someone his own age? Again, as a single example it says nothing, but the pattern is the same throughout the novel before the reveal.

I have nursed my own shaky theory that Eli actually sees Oskar as a maternal figure. Oskar shows a genuine interest in Eli's physical, as well as emotional state. He notices that Eli stinks, that Eli is not wearing a coat (Oskar even makes a sympathetic gesture towards Eli when he asks about the coat), later he frets over the way Eli picks her clothes out of the trash. These to me are all stereotypical maternal traits. "Arn't you getting enough to eat?" Elsewhere it has been point out that this solicitous attitude makes a stark contrast to Hakan. You hear about none of this from Hakan.

Interesting idea! And certainly no more shaky than my own.

Hakan clearly prefers boys.

And yet from the Narrator of Hakan’s own thoughts:
But since all this with Oskar had started something had changed. A ... regression. Eli had started to behave more and more like the child her appearance gave her out to be; had started to move her body in a loose-limbed and careless way, use childish expressions, words. Wanted to play. Hide the Key. A few nights ago they had played Hide the Key. Eli had become angry when Hakan had not showed the necessary enthusiasm for the game, then tried to tickle him to get him to laugh. He had relished Eli's touch. It was attractive, naturally. This joy, this . . . life. But also frightening, since it was something so foreign to him. He was both hornier and more scared than he had ever been since meeting her.

The story that Eli tells to the lonely cancer victim is a story about a beautiful boy.

This, of course, could be an example of JAL’s modifying Eli’s gender in the earlier parts of the novel to accommodate the change he had decided to make. It would have been a simple change in this case, since it didn’t involve Eli’s masculine or feminine interaction with the woman.

I read Eli's advice about hitting back with the bullies as stereotypically masculine, and we get a hint of the "older, harder" Eli in this scene.

Good point, although I could argue that Eli’s 200 years of experience had taught her this lesson, even as a girl – or maybe especially as a girl. And as for “older, harder,” you should have met my 9th grade definitely female English teacher.

The scene where Eli knights Oskar with a plastic sword, he refuses to play the part of the damsel, instead choosing the role of the "monster."

Definitely masculine, I agree. But there could certainly be other, sadder reasons why Eli would want to be the monster rather than the maiden.

That the two boys relate to each other through play, rather than simply talking I think is also masculine, especially that wrestling scene mentioned above.

I dunno. Ever seen a bunch of girls jumping rope or hopscotching or playing Jacks (do girls even do these things anymore?)

Eli is never quite what she appears to be, and I think that is another hurdle that Oskar has to overcome to love Eli.

QFT

[sauvin]

I don't know if Pete is right or wrong, but it's interesting to see what everyone associates with masculine vs. feminine in this story. Funny, but for some reason I always thought that Eli's messing around with the T-rod (e.g., stealing it from the store to use on Hakan) as distinctly boyish. But really, I think when you sum it all up, that Eli acts somewhere in the middle of a boy and a girl. He's really in the middle somewhere, to my way of thinking. He does boyish things and girlish things. Which I like because it makes him more of a pure "person"--Eli's not one thing or the other; Eli is sort of "all of the above."

I don't know, either. Mr. Mork is no idiot, and if he suspects this, I suspect there's reason to have the suspicion. My own feeling has a lot to do with Eli's having been neutered and having had to endure life as an outsider for so long - she's not really a girl, and not really a boy, but also not really anything inbetween. Emotionally and mentally very young, but weighted down with two centuries of unhuman experience, I often just view her as alien with significant human presentation.