Tommy | Tommy's relationship with Oskar and Eli | His views and thoughts
Tommy | Tommy's relationship with Oskar and Eli | His views and thoughts
Just finished reading the book for the second time. Some questions came up, questions that I remember having had the first time I read it but meanwhile just vanished.
Just like the title implies, this will be a discussion about Tommy.
I'm not exactly sure how to start this.
First of all, I have to say that I really admire this character. Not so much as "admire" but, it's as if he's the most human character in the story. Despite hanging out with people like Lasse and Robban, despite he himself partaking in drug use and being involved in some way with criminal activity. Despite all this, he ends up being just a kid, growing up, dealing with personal stuff.
My favourite moment of his would be either the prank during the mass, or when he met Eli. Which is something I'll come back to later.
So, random stuff I simply want to say about him:
- Oskar and Tommy were indeed friends, right? In the beginning, when the story introduces Tommy to us, from my point of view, I see him as just a friendly guy from the neighborhood. I somehow, at the same time, also get the feeling that Oskar should be careful around him.
Doesn't take long (I think) until we're told that a few years before that time, Tommy had taken Oskar to see a boxing fight. I don't remember very well, but it was something of the sort. This improved my opinion of him.
Even more so when Oskar went to Tommy's basement to pay him. Tommy was kind, protective. I liked it. At that point I established the idea that he was indeed a pretty nice guy. Nothing to be scared of.
- The story sometimes gives us informations about things that had happened over the course of a few days, or a week.
For example "Eli and Oskar had met every evening for the last 8 days", I think one of the times was actually really similar to this.
This makes me wonder. Could it be that during one of those evenings Tommy had conversed with Eli? or that Oskar had told Eli about Tommy?
I'm asking this becase when Eli visited Tommy in his basement, he knew her. And ... well, from what I remember they had never met.
The same thing can be said about Eli. She needed to feed, desperately. Why not just go there and feed on Tommy. Instead she was really kind to him, talking with him, explaining things with patience. Even stayed with Tommy for some time to make sure he would be ok, for Oskar's sake.
Taking all of this into consideration, we can say that they indeed liked each other, correct?
Close to the ending, Oskar gave Tommy money. What was it for, can someone also explain this?
In general, we see Oskar thinking about Tommy as someone important to him. And from everything I've writen above, it is pretty obvious he must have talked to Eli about Tommy in a good light. Otherwise Eli would have had another attitude regarding Tommy.
- After the ending, Eli killed Jimmy and Jonny. Left Micke alive, who was the one who invited him in.
Witnesses described him as an angel. I'm pretty sure they must've mentioned the black hair.
Tommy, who had showed a clear interest in police cases from the very start, same as Oskar, must have tried to know every little morbid detail about what had happened that night, right? Specially taking into consideration that his friend was envolved.
And that is my next question. He understood what happened, right? He knew Eli, was actually scared of him according to him. He also knew Oskar was being bullied. He knew they were friends (Eli and Oskar).
(SPOILERS FOR LET THE OLD DREAMS DIE)
Also, in Let the Old Dreams Die, the mysterious person who knew Oskar personally and sent the picture ... was Tommy right? I never thought much about it the first time I read it. Mostly because the first time I read LTROI I didn't pay as much attention to Tommy as I should've. But after this read, I made the connection and am now left wondering if it was him who sent the picture to the police/Karin. Someone close to him ... I can't think of anyone else. Johan wasn't realy close to him, was he?
(I'm not sure if there's a problem of me mentioning LTODD here. But it wouldn't make sense in creating a whole new topic in the LTODD place only to write a few words. Besides, the point of writing all this was to get here to this point. And if I had done that in the other place then I would've been given spoilers of LTROI. Still, If I have to I will delete this last part.)
Just like the title implies, this will be a discussion about Tommy.
I'm not exactly sure how to start this.
First of all, I have to say that I really admire this character. Not so much as "admire" but, it's as if he's the most human character in the story. Despite hanging out with people like Lasse and Robban, despite he himself partaking in drug use and being involved in some way with criminal activity. Despite all this, he ends up being just a kid, growing up, dealing with personal stuff.
My favourite moment of his would be either the prank during the mass, or when he met Eli. Which is something I'll come back to later.
So, random stuff I simply want to say about him:
- Oskar and Tommy were indeed friends, right? In the beginning, when the story introduces Tommy to us, from my point of view, I see him as just a friendly guy from the neighborhood. I somehow, at the same time, also get the feeling that Oskar should be careful around him.
Doesn't take long (I think) until we're told that a few years before that time, Tommy had taken Oskar to see a boxing fight. I don't remember very well, but it was something of the sort. This improved my opinion of him.
Even more so when Oskar went to Tommy's basement to pay him. Tommy was kind, protective. I liked it. At that point I established the idea that he was indeed a pretty nice guy. Nothing to be scared of.
- The story sometimes gives us informations about things that had happened over the course of a few days, or a week.
For example "Eli and Oskar had met every evening for the last 8 days", I think one of the times was actually really similar to this.
This makes me wonder. Could it be that during one of those evenings Tommy had conversed with Eli? or that Oskar had told Eli about Tommy?
I'm asking this becase when Eli visited Tommy in his basement, he knew her. And ... well, from what I remember they had never met.
The same thing can be said about Eli. She needed to feed, desperately. Why not just go there and feed on Tommy. Instead she was really kind to him, talking with him, explaining things with patience. Even stayed with Tommy for some time to make sure he would be ok, for Oskar's sake.
Taking all of this into consideration, we can say that they indeed liked each other, correct?
Close to the ending, Oskar gave Tommy money. What was it for, can someone also explain this?
In general, we see Oskar thinking about Tommy as someone important to him. And from everything I've writen above, it is pretty obvious he must have talked to Eli about Tommy in a good light. Otherwise Eli would have had another attitude regarding Tommy.
- After the ending, Eli killed Jimmy and Jonny. Left Micke alive, who was the one who invited him in.
Witnesses described him as an angel. I'm pretty sure they must've mentioned the black hair.
Tommy, who had showed a clear interest in police cases from the very start, same as Oskar, must have tried to know every little morbid detail about what had happened that night, right? Specially taking into consideration that his friend was envolved.
And that is my next question. He understood what happened, right? He knew Eli, was actually scared of him according to him. He also knew Oskar was being bullied. He knew they were friends (Eli and Oskar).
(SPOILERS FOR LET THE OLD DREAMS DIE)
Also, in Let the Old Dreams Die, the mysterious person who knew Oskar personally and sent the picture ... was Tommy right? I never thought much about it the first time I read it. Mostly because the first time I read LTROI I didn't pay as much attention to Tommy as I should've. But after this read, I made the connection and am now left wondering if it was him who sent the picture to the police/Karin. Someone close to him ... I can't think of anyone else. Johan wasn't realy close to him, was he?
(I'm not sure if there's a problem of me mentioning LTODD here. But it wouldn't make sense in creating a whole new topic in the LTODD place only to write a few words. Besides, the point of writing all this was to get here to this point. And if I had done that in the other place then I would've been given spoilers of LTROI. Still, If I have to I will delete this last part.)
I must be gone and live, or stay and die.
Re: Tommy | Tommy's relationship with Oskar and Eli | His views and thoughts
You always find a way of asking interesting questions.
I've personally never been entirely sure what I actually think of Tommy. I wouldn't want to remove him from the book, since he serves as a refreshing point of light in Oskar's otherwise pretty terrible life (one that was deliberately removed in the movie to make that version of Oskar even more isolated, I guess) and he obviously ends up serving an important role in the narrative by killing Håkan. Also, the scene with him and Eli is very funny and easily one of my favorite parts of the book. "The post office is closed for the day. Come back in five years" made me lose my shit the first time I read it.
On the other hand, I understand those who say that his mundane scenes (like the evening at Staffan's) drag on and distract from the interesting stuff, and I don't really know what I'm meant to take away from some of them, like these exchanges with Yvonne:
And of course, he's one of many ways that JAL has used to express his grief for his own late father.
It was likely also a case where Oskar himself didn't know what to do with the money and Tommy was the only person he could think of giving them to, since he was the only person left that Oskar was still close to after he'd burned (heh) his bridges with pretty much everyone at the school (except maybe Ávila) and alienated himself from his parents (intentionally so in the case of his dad).
Another option would be Micke, who did, after all, interact a lot with Oskar and was a big presence in his life, which I guess could count as "knowing him very well". Or at least that's how (a regretful?) Micke might phrase it in a letter to the police.
Rereading the text, I suppose it could even be Ávila, assuming he wasn't dead by 2008.
I've personally never been entirely sure what I actually think of Tommy. I wouldn't want to remove him from the book, since he serves as a refreshing point of light in Oskar's otherwise pretty terrible life (one that was deliberately removed in the movie to make that version of Oskar even more isolated, I guess) and he obviously ends up serving an important role in the narrative by killing Håkan. Also, the scene with him and Eli is very funny and easily one of my favorite parts of the book. "The post office is closed for the day. Come back in five years" made me lose my shit the first time I read it.
On the other hand, I understand those who say that his mundane scenes (like the evening at Staffan's) drag on and distract from the interesting stuff, and I don't really know what I'm meant to take away from some of them, like these exchanges with Yvonne:
Thursday 29 October wrote:[Tommy:] 'Do you think about Dad?'
[Yvonne:] 'Yes, of course I do. All the time.'
[Tommy:] 'All the time?'
[Yvonne:] 'What are you implying?'
[Tommy:] 'What are you implying?'
Your point about him being the most human character is interesting and not something I'd thought of before, though. He does serve as a nice counterbalance to all the eccentrics and people who either commit murders or are directly affected by them, showing that there are still normal people in the suburbs trying to live their lives while the main drama is happening.Sunday 8 November (Evening) wrote:[Yvonne:] 'Tommy. What should I do?'
[Tommy:] 'I don't know.'
[Yvonne:] 'Should I ...?'
[Tommy:] 'No, not for my sake. Things are what they are.'
And of course, he's one of many ways that JAL has used to express his grief for his own late father.
Tommy was definitely important to Oskar, but Oskar was also very aware of the limits of Tommy's friendship.Milkman wrote: ↑Wed Mar 16, 2022 8:21 pm- Oskar and Tommy were indeed friends, right? In the beginning, when the story introduces Tommy to us, from my point of view, I see him as just a friendly guy from the neighborhood. I somehow, at the same time, also get the feeling that Oskar should be careful around him.
Doesn't take long (I think) until we're told that a few years before that time, Tommy had taken Oskar to see a boxing fight. I don't remember very well, but it was something of the sort. This improved my opinion of him.
Even more so when Oskar went to Tommy's basement to pay him. Tommy was kind, protective. I liked it. At that point I established the idea that he was indeed a pretty nice guy. Nothing to be scared of.
Tommy probably could have helped Oskar, at least temporarily, if he'd wanted to. But he didn't, and he justifies his own inaction by telling himself that Oskar's situation was "hopeless" (Wednesday 28 October). I think this is the main reason that, when Eli gives Oskar the same advice about hitting back, he decides to act on it: Eli, unlike Tommy, offers to help him, even though in Oskar's eyes Eli is only a scrawny girl who wouldn't be able to do much against Jonny and the rest. They've known each other for less than a week at that point, and yet Eli is already proving to be a better and more selfless friend than Tommy.Wednesday 21 October wrote:Don't tell. There was no point. Tommy was three years older, a tough guy. He would only say something about fighting back and Oskar would say 'sure' and the end result would be that he lost even more respect in Tommy's eyes.
Tommy only knew Eli as "That girl. Oskar's friend" (Sunday 8 November (Evening/Night)). Since he's neighbors with O&E, my assumption is that he simply saw them in the courtyard together a couple times, through his window or when he was passing through in the evenings. However, there is room for the possibility that Oskar told Tommy the news that he'd gotten a new (girl)friend, or even that Tommy talked to Eli at some point (probably not for very long, though, since Tommy didn't know Eli's name).Milkman wrote: ↑Wed Mar 16, 2022 8:21 pmThis makes me wonder. Could it be that during one of those evenings Tommy had conversed with Eli? or that Oskar had told Eli about Tommy?
I'm asking this becase when Eli visited Tommy in his basement, he knew her. And ... well, from what I remember they had never met.
The way I interpret is that Oskar gave him the money as a kind of recompense for what he had to go through in the basement.
It was likely also a case where Oskar himself didn't know what to do with the money and Tommy was the only person he could think of giving them to, since he was the only person left that Oskar was still close to after he'd burned (heh) his bridges with pretty much everyone at the school (except maybe Ávila) and alienated himself from his parents (intentionally so in the case of his dad).
I agree.
Maybe. I personally think the experience in the bomb shelter would be a trauma that would affect him for a very long time and cause him to want to stay away from everything related to the murders.
I think he at the very least strongly suspected it. Even before selling his blood to Eli, he seemed to suspect that the things happening in the western suburbs were not entirely natural, as he hinted when talking to Oskar about the cancer woman in Ängby:
However, even if he concluded that Eli was the killer and that Oskar had run away with him, that would still leave a lot of lingering questions about how Eli was connected to the Ritual Killer and the other murders in the first place, how much Oskar knew, and what the deal was with the monster in the bomb shelter.Saturday 31 October wrote: [Oskar:] 'Either they made a mistake or else she was running around like that even though she was dead.'
[Tommy:] 'Exactly. And you know what? I don't think these dudes make those kind of mistakes. [...] Dead is dead.'
[Oskar:] 'Yes.'
[Tommy:] 'Yes. At least that's what we like to think.'
In any case, I think he likely never mentioned anything about Eli to the police or anyone else, for a simple reason:Sunday 8 November (Evening/Night) wrote:That girl, the one in the yellow dress, she must somehow believe that she is ... but wait, wait. It was that Ritual Killer that ... the one they were searching for ...
Tommy leaned his head in his hands; the bill crinkled against his ear. He couldn't figure it out. But in any case he was damn scared of that girl now.
Sunday 8 November (Evening/Night) wrote: [Eli:] 'You can't tell anyone about this.'
[Tommy:] 'What happens if I do?'
[Eli:] 'You cannot tell anyone about this. Ever.'
I've personally always thought it was Tommy, with Johan as the other main candidate. The Wednesday 21 October chapter mentions other friends Oskar was close to before starting school but which he'd started losing contact with due to his bullying victim status. I think JAL probably intended for readers to think that it was a character we knew from LTROI, though, since that's obviously more impactful to the reader.Milkman wrote: ↑Wed Mar 16, 2022 8:21 pm(SPOILERS FOR LET THE OLD DREAMS DIE)
Also, in Let the Old Dreams Die, the mysterious person who knew Oskar personally and sent the picture ... was Tommy right? I never thought much about it the first time I read it. Mostly because the first time I read LTROI I didn't pay as much attention to Tommy as I should've. But after this read, I made the connection and am now left wondering if it was him who sent the picture to the police/Karin. Someone close to him ... I can't think of anyone else. Johan wasn't realy close to him, was he?
Another option would be Micke, who did, after all, interact a lot with Oskar and was a big presence in his life, which I guess could count as "knowing him very well". Or at least that's how (a regretful?) Micke might phrase it in a letter to the police.
Rereading the text, I suppose it could even be Ávila, assuming he wasn't dead by 2008.
De höll om varandra i tystnad. Oskar blundade och visste: detta var det största. Ljuset från lyktan i portvalvet trängde svagt in genom hans slutna ögonlock, la en hinna av rött för hans ögon. Det största.
Re: Tommy | Tommy's relationship with Oskar and Eli | His views and thoughts
Personally, I think Tommy was to Oskar the big brother he wished he'd had, and conversely, Oskar was to Tommy the little brother he wished he'd had.
Oskar was twelve and Tommy was fifteen - just three years apart. Only a couple of years earlier they might have been occasional playmates, but now the chasm of puberty had come between them.
Milkman wrote: ↑Wed Mar 16, 2022 8:21 pmThis makes me wonder. Could it be that during one of those evenings Tommy had conversed with Eli? or that Oskar had told Eli about Tommy?
I'm asking this becase when Eli visited Tommy in his basement, he knew her. And ... well, from what I remember they had never met.
I don't think Tommy knew Eli, he rather knew about her. He would have seen Oskar end Eli together, perhaps once or twice met them in the courtyard as they were passing by in different directions. Perhaps Tommy and Oskar exchanged a few words, but if not just seeing Oskar with Eli would have been sufficient for Tommy to learn that Eli was Oskar's friend, and perhaps also for Eli to notice that there was some kind of bond between Oskar and Tommy. Additionally, Eli might have become curious, and Oskar then would have talked about Tommy as someone he cared for.Siggdalos wrote: ↑Wed Mar 16, 2022 11:11 pmTommy only knew Eli as "That girl. Oskar's friend" (Sunday 8 November (Evening/Night)). Since he's neighbors with O&E, my assumption is that he simply saw them in the courtyard together a couple times, through his window or when he was passing through in the evenings. However, there is room for the possibility that Oskar told Tommy the news that he'd gotten a new (girl)friend, or even that Tommy talked to Eli at some point (probably not for very long, though, since Tommy didn't know Eli's name).
I agree - Oskar gave Tommy the money to compensate for the horrible situation that Eli had inadvertently put him into.
I agree. Tommy was obviously not well when Oskar spotted him through the window walking by with his mother.
I think Tommy was confused about what was happening in the surroundings, but I don't think he had connected Eli to it or indeed that Eli was a vampire before Eli showed up to purchase blood. Only then the pieces fell together for him.Siggdalos wrote: ↑Wed Mar 16, 2022 11:11 pmI think he at the very least strongly suspected it. Even before selling his blood to Eli, he seemed to suspect that the things happening in the western suburbs were not entirely natural, as he hinted when talking to Oskar about the cancer woman in Ängby:
[...]
However, even if he concluded that Eli was the killer and that Oskar had run away with him, that would still leave a lot of lingering questions about how Eli was connected to the Ritual Killer and the other murders in the first place, how much Oskar knew, and what the deal was with the monster in the bomb shelter.
[...]
In any case, I think he likely never mentioned anything about Eli to the police or anyone else, [...]
Milkman wrote: ↑Wed Mar 16, 2022 8:21 pm(SPOILERS FOR LET THE OLD DREAMS DIE)
Also, in Let the Old Dreams Die, the mysterious person who knew Oskar personally and sent the picture ... was Tommy right? I never thought much about it the first time I read it. Mostly because the first time I read LTROI I didn't pay as much attention to Tommy as I should've. But after this read, I made the connection and am now left wondering if it was him who sent the picture to the police/Karin. Someone close to him ... I can't think of anyone else. Johan wasn't realy close to him, was he?
I think it should be someone who wouldn't recognise Eli in the picture, which would certainly exclude Tommy and probably also Micke.Siggdalos wrote: ↑Wed Mar 16, 2022 11:11 pmI've personally always thought it was Tommy, with Johan as the other main candidate. The Wednesday 21 October chapter mentions other friends Oskar was close to before starting school but which he'd started losing contact with due to his bullying victim status. I think JAL probably intended for readers to think that it was a character we knew from LTROI, though, since that's obviously more impactful to the reader.
Another option would be Micke, who did, after all, interact a lot with Oskar and was a big presence in his life, which I guess could count as "knowing him very well". Or at least that's how (a regretful?) Micke might phrase it in a letter to the police.
Rereading the text, I suppose it could even be Ávila, assuming he wasn't dead by 2008.
Àvila was in his sixties in 1981, so he would be around 90 in 2008 - not an implausible age - but I don't think that Ávila would describe himself as "someone who knew Oskar Eriksson very well".
Johan was presented in the novel as someone who would occasionally spend time with Oskar and he never saw Eli, so he is a good candidate.
However, it could have been someone else. I am thinking about Oskar's teacher Marie-Louise - she would have known Oskar well. However, in what way was she related to the family in the photo? She couldn't have been the mother - she would have been too old in 2008, and probably too young to be a grandmother. But she didn't have to be a relative to the family. A friend or a colleague to one or both of the parents would do. She would have been shown the picture and immediately recognised Oskar. She would then have asked for a copy that she later posted to the police. I actually like this idea!
But from the beginning Eli was just Eli. Nothing. Anything. And he is still a mystery to me. John Ajvide Lindqvist
Re: Tommy | Tommy's relationship with Oskar and Eli | His views and thoughts
Thank you! that's really good to know. That actually put a smile on my face
That was a good point. It would be expected of Tommy to help Oskar, but he didn't, even though he probably could and looked fit to do something about it. Eli on the other hand with her thin appearence couldn't do anything (or so Oskar thought), but still did something. Well that's ironic, never thought hard on it.Siggdalos wrote: ↑Wed Mar 16, 2022 11:11 pm
Tommy probably could have helped Oskar, at least temporarily, if he'd wanted to. But he didn't, and he justifies his own inaction by telling himself that Oskar's situation was "hopeless" (Wednesday 28 October). I think this is the main reason that, when Eli gives Oskar the same advice about hitting back, he decides to act on it: Eli, unlike Tommy, offers to help him, even though in Oskar's eyes Eli is only a scrawny girl who wouldn't be able to do much against Jonny and the rest. They've known each other for less than a week at that point, and yet Eli is already proving to be a better and more selfless friend than Tommy.
I still understand Tommy's side though, he probably thought that if he did something to help him, the bullies would just step up and make everything worse. Which ultimately was what happened. The first time, after Oskar had hit him with the stick, they threatened to push him off of the thing in the subway station. And the second time, after he had burned the classroom, burning all they had left from their dad in the process (which made me sad actually), and as a consequence - the pool scene.
Although, I don't think that was the main Tommy's thought process. The way I look at it is that he has a very apathetic way to look at things. The conversations with his mom for example, it's like he wants to be more vulnerable with her, and I even get the feeling that he just wants to cry and lay it all out, but can't. Not sure if it's because he's angry at Staffan and he thinks that by being vulnerable with her, Staffan would somehow win some sort of battle, I'm not sure. But he does seem to have a very fatalistic view of the world, probably something that appeared after his father died.
I think that he has a very "it's hopeless" mentality. The whole way he acts, speaks, it's like everything is a joke or not worth taking seriously.
Why give Oskar hope, if he himself can't even deal with his own personal issues - This could've been his way to rationalise is inaction.
Yeah, since he didn't know his name though, it's probably more likely he simply saw them hanging out together. I do love the idea of Oskar talking to Tommy about Eli, and of Tommy briefly talking with Eli. But we can only speculate about this.Siggdalos wrote: ↑Wed Mar 16, 2022 11:11 pm
Tommy only knew Eli as "That girl. Oskar's friend" (Sunday 8 November (Evening/Night)). Since he's neighbors with O&E, my assumption is that he simply saw them in the courtyard together a couple times, through his window or when he was passing through in the evenings. However, there is room for the possibility that Oskar told Tommy the news that he'd gotten a new (girl)friend, or even that Tommy talked to Eli at some point (probably not for very long, though, since Tommy didn't know Eli's name).
I agree. This was how I rationalised it as well. Again, we can only speculate, but I think it can only be for those two reasons.Siggdalos wrote: ↑Wed Mar 16, 2022 11:11 pm
The way I interpret is that Oskar gave him the money as a kind of recompense for what he had to go through in the basement.
It was likely also a case where Oskar himself didn't know what to do with the money and Tommy was the only person he could think of giving them to, since he was the only person left that Oskar was still close to after he'd burned (heh) his bridges with pretty much everyone at the school (except maybe Ávila) and alienated himself from his parents (intentionally so in the case of his dad).
Good point ... I didn't even think of this.
Although, I can still imagine Staffan talking with Tommy and his mom during dinner about what happened. Specially if he had found out they were friends. He'd probably want to ease his mind about the fact that Oskar was probably alright. Maybe not during dinner though.
I agree with everything. I totally forgot to mention the time Tommy asked for Oskar's opinion on that matter. I'm glad you brought it up. That was a really interesting conversation between them. I must have read it some 5 times in a row.Siggdalos wrote: ↑Wed Mar 16, 2022 11:11 pmI think he at the very least strongly suspected it. Even before selling his blood to Eli, he seemed to suspect that the things happening in the western suburbs were not entirely natural, as he hinted when talking to Oskar about the cancer woman in Ängby:
However, even if he concluded that Eli was the killer and that Oskar had run away with him, that would still leave a lot of lingering questions about how Eli was connected to the Ritual Killer and the other murders in the first place, how much Oskar knew, and what the deal was with the monster in the bomb shelter.Saturday 31 October wrote: [Oskar:] 'Either they made a mistake or else she was running around like that even though she was dead.'
[Tommy:] 'Exactly. And you know what? I don't think these dudes make those kind of mistakes. [...] Dead is dead.'
[Oskar:] 'Yes.'
[Tommy:] 'Yes. At least that's what we like to think.'
In any case, I think he likely never mentioned anything about Eli to the police or anyone else, for a simple reason:Sunday 8 November (Evening/Night) wrote:That girl, the one in the yellow dress, she must somehow believe that she is ... but wait, wait. It was that Ritual Killer that ... the one they were searching for ...
Tommy leaned his head in his hands; the bill crinkled against his ear. He couldn't figure it out. But in any case he was damn scared of that girl now.
Sunday 8 November (Evening/Night) wrote: [Eli:] 'You can't tell anyone about this.'
[Tommy:] 'What happens if I do?'
[Eli:] 'You cannot tell anyone about this. Ever.'
Mr. Ávila, that's a nice thought. It warms my heart everytime I read about his interactions with Oskar. I really like him as a character.Siggdalos wrote: ↑Wed Mar 16, 2022 11:11 pm
I've personally always thought it was Tommy, with Johan as the other main candidate. The Wednesday 21 October chapter mentions other friends Oskar was close to before starting school but which he'd started losing contact with due to his bullying victim status. I think JAL probably intended for readers to think that it was a character we knew from LTROI, though, since that's obviously more impactful to the reader.
Another option would be Micke, who did, after all, interact a lot with Oskar and was a big presence in his life, which I guess could count as "knowing him very well". Or at least that's how (a regretful?) Micke might phrase it in a letter to the police.
Rereading the text, I suppose it could even be Ávila, assuming he wasn't dead by 2008.
To imagine him, years later, finding out about Oskar. I really like that.
Still, I'd go with Tommy as well.
That's an interesting point of view. But I'm wondering, why do you think that it should be someone who wouldn't recognise Eli? You peaked my curiosity on that.metoo wrote: ↑Thu Mar 17, 2022 3:17 pm
I think it should be someone who wouldn't recognise Eli in the picture, which would certainly exclude Tommy and probably also Micke.
Àvila was in his sixties in 1981, so he would be around 90 in 2008 - not an implausible age - but I don't think that Ávila would describe himself as "someone who knew Oskar Eriksson very well".
Johan was presented in the novel as someone who would occasionally spend time with Oskar and he never saw Eli, so he is a good candidate.
However, it could have been someone else. I am thinking about Oskar's teacher Marie-Louise - she would have known Oskar well. However, in what way was she related to the family in the photo? She couldn't have been the mother - she would have been too old in 2008, and probably too young to be a grandmother. But she didn't have to be a relative to the family. A friend or a colleague to one or both of the parents would do. She would have been shown the picture and immediately recognised Oskar. She would then have asked for a copy that she later posted to the police. I actually like this idea!
I must be gone and live, or stay and die.
Re: Tommy | Tommy's relationship with Oskar and Eli | His views and thoughts
I considered that idea as well and agree that it would've been a satisfying answer to the mystery, but the text specifies that it was a man. My translation:metoo wrote: ↑Thu Mar 17, 2022 3:17 pmI am thinking about Oskar's teacher Marie-Louise - she would have known Oskar well. However, in what way was she related to the family in the photo? She couldn't have been the mother - she would have been too old in 2008, and probably too young to be a grandmother. But she didn't have to be a relative to the family. A friend or a colleague to one or both of the parents would do. She would have been shown the picture and immediately recognised Oskar. She would then have asked for a copy that she later posted to the police. I actually like this idea!
When I looked closer in the envelope there was a short letter from a person living in Blackeberg who'd known Oskar Eriksson very well. He apologized for wasting the police's time, that the whole thing must of course be a misunderstanding, but he asked them to look closely at the attached picture.
De höll om varandra i tystnad. Oskar blundade och visste: detta var det största. Ljuset från lyktan i portvalvet trängde svagt in genom hans slutna ögonlock, la en hinna av rött för hans ögon. Det största.
Re: Tommy | Tommy's relationship with Oskar and Eli | His views and thoughts
Well, while Marie-Louise could conceivably be Sven-Erik these days, I suppose it would be a bit too convoluted.Siggdalos wrote: ↑Thu Mar 17, 2022 3:50 pmI considered that idea as well and agree that it would've been a satisfying answer to the mystery, but the text specifies that it was a man. My translation:
When I looked closer in the envelope there was a short letter from a person living in Blackeberg who'd known Oskar Eriksson very well. He apologized for wasting the police's time, that the whole thing must of course be a misunderstanding, but he asked them to look closely at the attached picture.
But from the beginning Eli was just Eli. Nothing. Anything. And he is still a mystery to me. John Ajvide Lindqvist
Re: Tommy | Tommy's relationship with Oskar and Eli | His views and thoughts
Because the letter only mentioned Oskar. If the writer had recognised Eli he would have said so, I think. Furthermore, he would have expressed himself in much more certain terms.
But from the beginning Eli was just Eli. Nothing. Anything. And he is still a mystery to me. John Ajvide Lindqvist
Re: Tommy | Tommy's relationship with Oskar and Eli | His views and thoughts
Yeah. Occam's razor.
De höll om varandra i tystnad. Oskar blundade och visste: detta var det största. Ljuset från lyktan i portvalvet trängde svagt in genom hans slutna ögonlock, la en hinna av rött för hans ögon. Det största.
Re: Tommy | Tommy's relationship with Oskar and Eli | His views and thoughts
Personally, I can understand why only Oskar was highlighted. Even if it was Tommy (or someone else who had met Eli in some way) who had sent the picture. It just made sense to only mention Oskar, since he was the boy who had gone missing. Eli, from what I know, wasn't a person in concrete whom the police had identified in any way.
I absolutely respect your point of view, of course. And it definitely makes sense, but I still feel that any character who might have known Eli, would still choose not to mention him.
This is true. Although, the person could had simply been trying to preserve their privacy. But well, who knows.
I must be gone and live, or stay and die.
Re: Tommy | Tommy's relationship with Oskar and Eli | His views and thoughts
The writer of the letter is referred as a person by the narrator, male to be exact, which implies that the writer had presented himself with name and all in his letter. The fact that the name is absent in the narrator's tale would plausibly be because the narrator chose not to reveal it.Siggdalos wrote: ↑Thu Mar 17, 2022 3:50 pmWhen I looked closer in the envelope there was a short letter from a person living in Blackeberg who'd known Oskar Eriksson very well. He apologized for wasting the police's time, that the whole thing must of course be a misunderstanding, but he asked them to look closely at the attached picture.
But from the beginning Eli was just Eli. Nothing. Anything. And he is still a mystery to me. John Ajvide Lindqvist