The novel railway compartment

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metoo
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Re: The novel railway compartment

Post by metoo » Sun May 17, 2015 6:37 am

They could have picked an earlier train to a more distant destination.

Actually, we still need an explanation to why they waited until mid day before they left Stockholm. They could have left already the night before, when Eli could have travelled openly in the darkness of the night.

I have thought about this a lot. ;-)

The only reason that I find believable is that Oskar wasn't ready to commit to a life with Eli until late in the morning of the 13th. Then it suddenly became urgent - if not, they could have waited until the next night and avoided the hassle with the trunk.

This is what I think might have happened:

When Oskar was pulled out of the water he was too worn down to feel anything. He barely noticed that Eli had returned. Eli helped Oskar to dress and to leave the bath house.

Eli's first assumption was that Oskar would want to go to his mother, since that is what Eli himself would have wanted. So Eli led Oskar to his apartment door. But Oskar didn't want to enter, to Eli's astonishment.

At the apartment door Oskar realised what was about to happen, and mustering the little power he had left he led the way down into the basement, into the storage compartment that belonged to the apartment. There Oskar and Eli spent the night. Being exhausted, Oskar soon fell asleep and then slept through the night. Maybe he didn't sleep well, perhaps he had nightmares, and Eli comforted him. Still, Oskar slept most of the time until morning.

In the morning of the 13th Oskar finally woke up. He now was less tired and numb than the night before, and was able to think. However, he didn't immediately decide to go with Eli. Something held Oskar back. What?

Maybe the thought of leaving his mother, which he surely knew would be the most cruel thing he cold do to her.

Maybe the thought of having to kill people. The experience in Eli's bathroom would have made a strong impression on him. He would still remember the look in Lacke's eyes.

But if he didn't go with Eli he'd never be happy again. The last three days had proven that.

What to do?

I think it would have been a very hard decision. Oskar might have pushed it away, tried to avoid it, for several hours.

But eventually Oskar made up his mind. Perhaps the tipping point was when he realised what danger it was for Eli to be with him in the basement. Perhaps Oskar realised that the police would search for him, and that they would look for him everywhere. Eli wasn't safe with him in the basement. Suddenly time was becoming short. Eli had to be saved.

The choice had been made. Eli crept into the trunk, and Oskar took it to the railway station via the underground train.

When the train started rolling and Oskar was able to relax, he found that he was happy.

So, where did Oskar get the trunk? Well, the most likely place would have been in the storage compartment. It was an old heirloom of Oskar's mother's. Why complicate things?
But from the beginning Eli was just Eli. Nothing. Anything. And he is still a mystery to me. John Ajvide Lindqvist

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EEA
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Re: The novel railway compartment

Post by EEA » Sun May 17, 2015 7:19 pm

I think it's a plausible explanation.
Though I think Oskar had already said goodbye to his old life, he was ready to make his choice. But Eli had already left, so he probably felt that he was too late to tell Eli that he wanted to go with him.
But then the pool scene happens and Eli comes back. ;)

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Re: The novel railway compartment

Post by dongregg » Sun May 17, 2015 8:46 pm

EEA wrote:I think it's a plausible explanation.
Though I think Oskar had already said goodbye to his old life, he was ready to make his choice. But Eli had already left, so he probably felt that he was too late to tell Eli that he wanted to go with him.
But then the pool scene happens and Eli comes back. ;)
I can see that Oskar was at a tipping point. I can see that he had really decided to go it alone and become independent of whatever his parents had in mind for him. After all, he saw he couldn't count on them.

And I could see an interpretation that Eli and Oskar were both ready to move on from each other. That is, until Eli realized that he couldn't do that and came back. Eli is used to moving on when things get too hot, but being with Oskar has changed him too much for that to still be the case. As for Oskar, I can see that, though devastated at Eli's leaving, he had taken a step away from being a child -- that is, until he found to his horror that he wasn't safe, that the bullies had just been lying low waiting until they could execute their plan. Here Oskar finds that he really needs his friend.

Still, even after Eli saves him, he would have to decide between Plan A, staying in school and moving forward from his childhood, or Plan B, abandoning his family and going with Eli; so that bit of unfinished business would fit in with why they didn't grab the first train out of town that night.
“For drama to deepen, we must see the loneliness of the monster and the cunning of the innocent.”

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metoo
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Re: The novel railway compartment

Post by metoo » Mon May 18, 2015 4:35 am

dongregg wrote:After all, he [Oskar] saw he couldn't count on them [his parents].
This is more or less an axiom on this forum, and I wouldn't really disagree regarding Oskar's father. However, Oskar's mother wasn't a bad parent. On the opposite, she took an interest in him (in the novel), did see that he wasn't well and tried to penetrate the wall he had set up to learn what was troubling him. You may say that she could have done more, but I then reply that she could have done a lot less.

Her lacking communication with Oskar thus wasn't entirely her fault. She did try. But perhaps it wasn't Oskar's fault either. He was in his pre-teens, and had begun the process of becoming an independent person. So his mother was powerless, and she realised it. In her frustration she became upset, and shouted at Oskar. That wasn't the very best approach, but I can't blame her. But Oskar ran away, to the pool. And he never returned. What a tragedy. Would she ever stop blaming herself?

Wouldn't Oskar understand as much?
dongregg wrote:And I could see an interpretation that Eli and Oskar were both ready to move on from each other.
I don't see that. Oskar was heartbroken when Eli left. This is hinted at in the film (Oskar crying when that Mercedes leaves), but it is much more elaborated in the novel (you really should read it, dongregg). Oskar went into a depression, was unable to go to school for several days. He wasn't ready to split up with Eli. Not at all. And neither was Eli, I assume (his motives for returning isn't even hinted at in the novel, but I believe he went through a similar process as Oskar did).
Last edited by metoo on Mon May 18, 2015 4:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
But from the beginning Eli was just Eli. Nothing. Anything. And he is still a mystery to me. John Ajvide Lindqvist

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Marok
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Re: The novel railway compartment

Post by Marok » Mon May 18, 2015 12:32 pm

dongregg wrote:Still, even after Eli saves him, he would have to decide between Plan A, staying in school and moving forward from his childhood, or Plan B, abandoning his family and going with Eli; so that bit of unfinished business would fit in with why they didn't grab the first train out of town that night.
Now that you mentioned it I start imagining how Plan A would have played out. Considering the outcome of the pool scene in the novel, with two dead bullies and a couple witnesses confirming Oskar was involved and saved by a decapitating angel.
Phew, that’s some nasty interrogation awaiting him!
  • >> Who or what took care of you there, my boy? <<
    >> Just my vampire girlfriend, um … no wait, boyfriend, actually … sort of. <<
How sanely does that sound? :?
And what about the little chance somebody believes him, if he was telling the truth? It would complicate things for Eli, something Oskar surely wouldn’t intend.

Perhaps Oskar was trying to figure out some kind of Plan C, getting out of all that mess without separating from anyone he loves – an insoluble problem?
It’s been probably the heat closing in then, what pushed them into leaving sooner and thus boarding the train. (As pointed out before)

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Ash
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Re: The novel railway compartment

Post by Ash » Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:16 am

This is in essence what some, including myself, have proposed as evidence of Eli's manipulative side.... perhaps.
While some view it as Eli acting instinctively to protect Oskar from his foes, others view it as Eli providing Oskar no option other than running away with her. A sort of Nabokovian arrangement, "You see, she had absolutely nowhere else to go."
There is other evidence in the novel that Eli is not totally immune to using a tad of manipulation, with Hakan for instance. And the fact she has survived against the odds so long suggests she may be quite skilled in this art.
The issue is insignificant for me because either way I think Eli had earned enough brownie points to be with Oskar anyway, and vice versa.

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Re: The novel railway compartment

Post by gkmoberg1 » Thu Jun 04, 2015 11:46 am

I would argue two points. First is that most twelve year old children have learned a little bit of the art of manipulation. Were Eli not at all manipulative throughout this story, that would be more striking as odd or even suspicious. Second is that Oskar didn't need to go with Eli. Eli had removed Oskar's primary bullies. Had Oskar chosen to stay, his life would be easier in that regard. As well, there would be no punishment for what had happened (other than his striking Jonny with the stick); he very well could not be implicated for the poolside carnage. Thus deciding to go with Eli and run off is the far riskier course. It is not one made because there remained no alternative.

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metoo
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Re: The novel railway compartment

Post by metoo » Thu Jun 04, 2015 8:03 pm

Why Eli tore the heads off both boys certainly is cloudy. Of course, the reason why John made Eli do it is quite clear - John wanted revenge on his former tormentors. But Eli's reasons, inside the story ... that's a different question. Killing Jonny just doesn't seem necessary, especially not in such a spectacular way, and that's what makes people think that Eli did it to force Oskar into his company.

So, why did Eli kill Jonny? Maybe he was just in an uncontrollable rage and killed both brothers before he could gather himself. But - maybe - he instead killed Jonny in cold blood.

Consider what Eli's priorities would have been:
1: Remove the immediate threat to Oskar: get Jimmy out of the way. Maybe Jimmy's head went already there.
2: Make sure Oskar was well. Help him out of the pool. Comfort him.
3: Note that Jonny would still be alive at this point. Eli could have focussed on Oskar, and left Jonny behind. Jonny was no threat. But Eli turned to Jonny, and in this scenario away from Oskar for a while. Why? Eli must have had a strong reason for leaving Oskar, even for a short while - and I don't think manipulating Oskar was one.

Oskar would not have been held responsible for the carnage around the pool. Nobody would have suggested such a thing. Oskar would have known this, and Eli would as well. However, Oskar knew stuff that could lead to Eli's capture and death. Oskar might therefore have considered himself a risk to Eli, and this might have been part of the reason why he left. Plausibly he did not trust himself being able to keep shut about Eli in the long run. But would Eli have calculated on that? I think not — it's just too convoluted. Therefore, I think the argument that Eli's beheading of Jonny and Jimmy was a way of manipulating Oskar is moot.

But Eli, still believing that Oskar would stay in Blackeberg, might have wanted to remove Jonny from Oskar's surroundings. Imagine this scene:
Eli has pulled Oskar out of the water, has comforted him a minute or two, Oskar has calmed down and Eli and is ready to help him away. Then Eli spots Jonny, who is still standing across the corner of the pool, close to the beheaded corpse of his brother. Eli thinks briefly and then says to Oskar:
"Wait here a second. Just need to fix this."
Then Eli leaves Oskar, walks over to Jonny, pops his head off and throws in into the pool where Jimmy's head already is resting. Satisfied that Oskar's future safety now is ensured, Eli walks back to Oskar and helps him away.
But from the beginning Eli was just Eli. Nothing. Anything. And he is still a mystery to me. John Ajvide Lindqvist

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Re: The novel railway compartment

Post by gkmoberg1 » Thu Jun 04, 2015 11:02 pm

A simple scenario is that Jonny came to his brother's defense.

I agree with your priorities 1: and 2: . The first priority is to keep Jimmy from doing further harm to Oskar. The second, then, is to make sure Oskar is above water and breathing. But your 3: depends on what happens during 1: and 2:.

For example, Eli's first act may have been to provide a strong shove to Jimmy, enough to remove him from Oskar. This may or may not have incapacitated Jimmy. But let's say it doesn't. Jimmy, being a tough street character, might have gone after Eli. And Jonny might have joined in. This would then be the point then where Eli improvised a Plan B - resorting to the strategy advocated by the Queen of Hearts from Alice's Adventures in Wonderland (1865). At that point, with Oskar still in the water, both brothers are taken out. This provides a reason why both were given the same treatment but others nearby were not harmed.

What we need is for one of us to get copies of the reports Gunnar Holmberg was left to decipher while Eli & Osker were implementing their grand 'escape in broad daylight'. (A collection of the case's ephemera and reports would make for a very creative Fan Art entry!)
  • “. . . angel . . . wings . . . the head exploded . . . the stiletto . . . trying to drown Oskar . . . Oskar was completely blue . . . the kind of teeth like a lion . . . picked Oskar up . . .”

    Lindqvist, John Ajvide; Ebba Segerberg (2008-10-28). Let the Right One In: A Novel (p. 471). St. Martin's Griffin. Kindle Edition.

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metoo
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Re: The novel railway compartment

Post by metoo » Fri Jun 05, 2015 5:04 am

Maybe Eli at first just shoved Jimmy away and didn't seriously hurt him. Would Jimmy then be foolish enough to return to his feet and attack Eli? Remember that at this point Eli was very far from sweet Lina. Instead he was a raving, winged, fanged and clawed monster. Jimmy was intoxicated by marihuana, but I still doubt that he would dare to attack something like Eli.

The same is true for Jonny, and more so if Jimmy was killed right away. In the latter scenario Jimmy was lying at Jonny's feet; very, very dead. Would Jonny have been able to do anything but just stand there and watch? I think not.

Maybe Eli killed both brothers before seeing to Oskar's needs, but I find that scenario unlikely. The Eli I see in the novel is most of all scared that he would not be able to save Oskar. He was on the verge of panic. Unable to get inside without an invitation he ponded the door so hard that the door was shaking. Would he then spend precious seconds on killing Jonny, that he could better spend on making sure Oskar was well? No.

So why did Eli kill Jonny?

Maybe, like I wrote before, because he came to the conclusion that Jonny had already proven that he would not quit haunting Oskar, and therefore had to be removed.

But there is another possibility. Maybe Oskar asked him to do it.
Last edited by metoo on Fri Jun 05, 2015 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
But from the beginning Eli was just Eli. Nothing. Anything. And he is still a mystery to me. John Ajvide Lindqvist

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