Control over the infection: Eli v Virginia

[Alice?Maybe]

I agree that it would be too expensive to buy blood if she paid everyone as much as she paid Tommy. It's like she's a normal 12 year old when it comes to appreciating the value of money. But the Vampire Academy solution is feasible. There are millions upon millions of fans of vampire fiction. Some of whom would be willing to give blood every now and again. Run a craigslist ad. How often does she need to feed? Twice a week, three times? Lets say half a liter from each donor, because a liter is an awful lot of blood to lose at any one time. She would need 8 donors for a feeding. So, 80 would do, because we can give half a liter a month. It wouldn't be easy, but is plausible. I doubt that they would think of this being children and not having the benefit of seeing that particular movie. I wouldn't have thought of it had I not seen it.

I disagree, it isn't plausible. And you can't give whole blood as often as once a month, the recovery time is at least twice that, which at least doubles the number of people needed to sustain Eli's life. All of whom have to keep the secret.

Could it be she thinks that killing is inevitable because she does not want to infect anyone and didn't know that getting blood as she did from Tommy doesn't lead to infection. She did worry about that, so she didn't know. It seems that to Eli it is better to kill than to infect, but learned through Tommy that she can get blood without infecting.

Well, the novel says:
Men innan Eli gick till vila måste han titta till Tommy. Att han återhämtat sig. Smittad hade han inte blivit. Men för Oskars skull ville han se efter att Tommy klarade sig.
But before Eli went to rest he had to look after Tommy. That he had recovered. He hadn't been infected. But for Oskar's sake he wanted to check that Tommy would make it. My translation.

Note that the Swedish text is more emphatic than the English translation I made. It literally says "infected he had not become", stressing the adjective by setting it first. Tommy certainly had not been infected. Thus, Eli was very sure of that. He knew this was a safe procedure, most likely from earlier experience. What he was less sure of was that Tommy would cope with the rather substantial blood loss.

You disagree, no surprise there. But you are wrong. Just because the Red Cross won't take your blood every month doesn't mean you haven't replenished. 20-50 days, with the mean being 36. Eli isn't worried about the liability that your local blood bank is, so yes it is entirely plausible.

Before Eli takes Tommy's blood she wonders if he may become infected. She goes back to see if he is alright. She doesn't want to hurt him because he is important to Oskar and she loves Oskar.

[drakkar]

You disagree, no surprise there. But you are wrong. Just because the Red Cross won't take your blood every month doesn't mean you haven't replenished. 20-50 days, with the mean being 36. Eli isn't worried about the liability that your local blood bank is, so yes it is entirely plausible.

This isn't the point, I think. Eli has been shunning the society for more than two centuries. He isn't part of it, he prays on it and fears it. And, that pattern has sustained him since the French revoultion.
What do you think would happen if Alice?Maybe had approached Eli, smiling informing him about the good news from the Vampire Academy? He would run lik hell. Or, possibly nom you, if he was very hungry and the situation was safe for a quick snack.

[metoo]

You disagree, no surprise there. But you are wrong. Just because the Red Cross won't take your blood every month doesn't mean you haven't replenished. 20-50 days, with the mean being 36. Eli isn't worried about the liability that your local blood bank is, so yes it is entirely plausible.

Well, I think there is no definite "right" or "wrong" here. But it's not about what Eli thinks, it's about what is realistically plausible, as far as I'm concerned. The novel is firmly rooted in realism, I don't want to depart from that. Donating whole blood as often as once a month for years or even decades without adverse effects isn't plausible, given what the Wikipedia article says. You definitely need more people, and eventually someone will talk. Thus, a secret circle of donors isn't plausible. But perhaps you didn't say that the circle needed to be secret. Thus, a scenario where Eli is discovered and kept alive by an officially organised blood donor system is quite plausible. All while Eli is the centre of a huge research program, from which much is learnt. But that is a completely different story than LtROI (I think drakkar agrees to that). You can find variations of it in the fan fiction section.

Before Eli takes Tommy's blood she wonders if he may become infected.

I find no such passage in the novel. A quotation, please!

[EEA]

Well I was thinking that both Eli and Virginia are at different stages in life. Eli will be twelve forever and that is why she can control the infection. Her desire to live is stronger, even though she knows how she could end her existence.
Virginia has live and suffer in her life. To me she chooses to end her life because she is aware of what the infection will do to those she loves. Virginia to me feels defeated with the life that she has led, while Eli keeps on trying to live even though she knows what the price for that is.
As for donating blood for Eli I do not think it would be possible. Both Eli and Oskar are now predators who hunt in the shadows to survive. That is how I view them after reading LTODD.

[metoo]

[...]As for donating blood for Eli I do not think it would be possible. Both Eli and Oskar are now predators who hunt in the shadows to survive. That is how I view them after reading LTODD.

I share this view.

The ultimate point, I think, is that LtROI is about loneliness, about being an outcast, and about the possibility to find a friend even in that situation. To remove the horrible situation in which Eli exists changes the story, makes it a different one. Therefore, no societies of donors are possible, and no healing of Eli's infection.

[Alice?Maybe]

You disagree, no surprise there. But you are wrong. Just because the Red Cross won't take your blood every month doesn't mean you haven't replenished. 20-50 days, with the mean being 36. Eli isn't worried about the liability that your local blood bank is, so yes it is entirely plausible.

Well, I think there is no definite "right" or "wrong" here. But it's not about what Eli thinks, it's about what is realistically plausible, as far as I'm concerned. The novel is firmly rooted in realism, I don't want to depart from that. Donating whole blood as often as once a month for years or even decades without adverse effects isn't plausible, given what the Wikipedia article says. You definitely need more people, and eventually someone will talk. Thus, a secret circle of donors isn't plausible. But perhaps you didn't say that the circle needed to be secret. Thus, a scenario where Eli is discovered and kept alive by an officially organised blood donor system is quite plausible. All while Eli is the centre of a huge research program, from which much is learnt. But that is a completely different story than LtROI (I think drakkar agrees to that). You can find variations of it in the fan fiction section.

Before Eli takes Tommy's blood she wonders if he may become infected.

I find no such passage in the novel. A quotation, please!

My apologies, I was wrong. It's after when she is sitting thinking about the woman she'd met and then decided she needed to check on tommy. Somehow I keep remembering them together.

People that would participate aren't likely to "talk". Remember they are there because they want to be a part if the vampire stories they love so much. Think they want to ruin that? Not very likely. Not to mention the notion that Eli has powers that seemingly allow her to manipulate emotions to a certain extent. There are many like Hakan and Oskar who would die before ratting her out, maybe with a bit of emotional manipulation. In Vampire Academy they use that power to make reality seem dreamlike or forgotten. I'm not saying it would be easy, just possible.

[drakkar]

People that would participate aren't likely to "talk". Remember they are there because they want to be a part if the vampire stories they love so much. Think they want to ruin that? Not very likely.

But Eli wouldn't know that. Eli doesn't know people, nor the socitey. He shuns the society, except when he preys on it.

Not to mention the notion that Eli has powers that seemingly allow her to manipulate emotions to a certain extent.

Which he use to stay away from the society and people. He uses his powers to seek out another outcast, Håkan, which can help him staying away from the society and the Vampire Academy.

In the book, Eli instinctively fears people, this isn't someting which is easy to change. You can have as good intentions you like, Eli won't trust you. He befriends Oskar because he is another outcast. It is very likely that any other normal kid would have become dinner that evening at the jungle gym.

[metoo]

People that would participate aren't likely to "talk". Remember they are there because they want to be a part if the vampire stories they love so much. Think they want to ruin that? Not very likely.

It now seems you are mixing things up a little. In the actual, real reality, where you and I are having this exchange of arguments, LtROI is a fictional story which many people adore. Inside LtROI, on the other hand, there is no fan club.

Not to mention the notion that Eli has powers that seemingly allow her to manipulate emotions to a certain extent. There are many like Hakan and Oskar who would die before ratting her out, maybe with a bit of emotional manipulation. In Vampire Academy they use that power to make reality seem dreamlike or forgotten. I'm not saying it would be easy, just possible.

Vampire Academy isn't LtROI, though.

[gattoparde59]

Comparing Eli and Virginia has always been a problem for me, because their experience of the infection reads so different for me at least.

Eli does show considerable expertise with his infection and how to deal with it. For all that he fears other people he knows who to single out for his special needs. Tommy was a good mark because he was visibly impaired and maybe amenable to Eli's bizarre request (Oskar had mentioned the glue sniffing to him earlier if I recall). Come to think of it every one of Eli's victims was impaired in some way with alcohol or morphine or what have you. He has the necessary social skills and instincts to carry on the way he does. Eli also has considerable control over the supernatural aspects of his infection. He can "think" his injuries better, he can think his way to monstrous claws and teeth. I don't get much of that from Virginia.

The other big difference with Eli is his perpetual status as a child. Maybe the idea is that children are not quite members of society, or community or what have you, only potential members who find it easier to go down a different path separate from humanity in whatever sense you want to call it. It is easier for a child to be an "outsider" than it is for an adult. Easier for for Oskar to follow Eli down the dark road of the vampire.

There are probably other examples of this in vampire fiction, but I do remember vampires feeding on each other in Near Dark. In that case the newly infected vampire was reluctant to kill people, so he got by feeding off his girl friend and never took that final step to be a full fledged predator. I could see that happening with Oskar where he might be reluctant to kill and having to be nursed along by his vampire friend, that and all the other things that Oskar would have to be taught about living as a vampire on the edge of human society. I could imagine all kinds of unpleasant scenarios as Eli showed Oskar how to survive.

Virginia has a harder time. As an adult she is too involved with the world of adults. She has too much baggage to turn away from the human race, as do most vampires.

Question: When Eli goes to check up on Tommy after she finished the transaction for blood, does Eli say she needs to check "for Oskar's sake?" Maybe Eli does fear that Tommy would become one of the Undead? It could be I misremember and Eli is actually worried about Hakan.

[drakkar]

As for Eli's experience and control over the supernatural aspects of his infection, the book gives a few hints, for example that it almost doesn't hurt any longer to think claws, just a tingling. This gave me the impression of an Eli coming to terms with his infection, having developed a way to live with it.
Towards the end, Eli even asks Oskar if he want to become like him, after having said he would never infect him earlier in the story. Why? I think it's because to Eli, loneliness is worse than being infected, and Oskar is lonely without Eli.

No such thing for Virginia. She is freshly infected, there is two centuries of infection separating them. The only thing she has learnt yet is that she thinks of her grandson (wasn't he?) as food, and can never meet him again. Instead she tries to nom the acquaintance she like the least.

Answer: Yes, he does it for Oskar's sake. Because Eli had decided to leave, and Tommy was about the only Oskar had left without Eli. I think he checked that Tommy hadn't died from blood loss. I didn't get it that Eli was afraid Tommy should become an undead, after all Eli was sure about Tommy not being infected.