Another LTROI Review

For discussion of Tomas Alfredson's Film Låt den rätte komma in
Post Reply
User avatar
metoo
Posts: 3677
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:36 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Another LTROI Review

Post by metoo » Mon May 15, 2017 6:52 am

PeteMork wrote: I don't think these two theories are mutually exclusive. It's very likely Oskar normally didn't dare to hit back. After all, there were three of them confronting him most of the time.
True. I should have said so in my earlier posting. Not daring was part of Oskar's troubles, of course.
PeteMork wrote:At the same time I don't think he wanted to hurt people either, as evidenced by his handing Jonny his sock. In the short term, Eli's advice worked; in the long term of course, it didn't. Hindsight is always 20-20.

But the important thing is, Eli advice, as successful as it seemed to be, didn't change him; didn't make him braver or meaner. This is supported by the way he tossed the sheathed knife away while Eli was killing Lacke. He didn't want any part of the violence he was witnessing. But at the same time, he knew he was partly responsible for Lacke's death because he pulled his knife and shouted at him, thereby alerting Eli to the danger she was in.

In other words he never learned the lesson Eli was trying to teach him. He didn't have the seed in him, in spite of his fantasies. (Or I would like to think he didn't.)
In the novel Oskar was even more active. He actually hit Lacke, in his temple with the corner of the Rubik's cube he brought to give Eli, thereby saving Eli's life. And a couple of moments later, when Oskar met Lacke's gaze as Eli was chewing on Lacke's neck, Oskar silently asked Lacke to forgive him.

So Oskar didn't have it in him.
But from the beginning Eli was just Eli. Nothing. Anything. And he is still a mystery to me. John Ajvide Lindqvist

User avatar
cmfireflies
Posts: 1152
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 7:39 pm

Re: Another LTROI Review

Post by cmfireflies » Wed May 17, 2017 4:52 am

metoo wrote:Eli's advice didn't work. Jonny/Conny didn't stop. Instead, things escalated.

I think the reason the advice didn't work was that Oskar didn't want to hurt people, and that it showed.
I think there's a tendency to downplay Oskar's violent tendencies here. I think that Oskar leaving with Eli would have been a horrible idea if Oskar was really such a pacifist. He needs to at least be OK with violence and I think Oskar is capable of violence and being OK with its aftermath. After all, he left with Eli after the pool massacre.

I said before that the trauma and betrayal of the pool scene would leave a mark on Oskar that would nudge him towards Eli. The lesson for him would be that his peers/adults are malicious at worst and ineffectual at best. The realization that survival sometimes necessitates violence allows him to leave with Eli.

I think that things escalated with Conny due to Conny being a worse than the average bully. Not all bullies are bad people, some are just testing boundaries, and grow out of it. Some are just looking for a reaction, and Oskar hitting back would have ended it. Conny knew Oskar wasn't going to take his **** anymore that day on the ice and his crew knew it too. Conny just didn't want to give up his power, even when Oskar was defiant. And so he got whacked by Oskar, and I think Oskar would do so again if Conny challenged him one on one. Even if Oskar doesn't find violence to be particularly enjoyable, he at least sees violence as sometimes necessary, and that's why he's compatible with Eli.
"When is a monster not a monster? Oh, when you love it."

User avatar
PeteMork
Posts: 3781
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:56 pm
Location: Menlo Park, California

Re: Another LTROI Review

Post by PeteMork » Wed May 17, 2017 5:43 am

cmfireflies wrote:I think there's a tendency to downplay Oskar's violent tendencies here. I think that Oskar leaving with Eli would have been a horrible idea if Oskar was really such a pacifist. He needs to at least be OK with violence and I think Oskar is capable of violence and being OK with its aftermath. After all, he left with Eli after the pool massacre.

I said before that the trauma and betrayal of the pool scene would leave a mark on Oskar that would nudge him towards Eli. The lesson for him would be that his peers/adults are malicious at worst and ineffectual at best. The realization that survival sometimes necessitates violence allows him to leave with Eli.

I think that things escalated with Conny due to Conny being a worse than the average bully. Not all bullies are bad people, some are just testing boundaries, and grow out of it. Some are just looking for a reaction, and Oskar hitting back would have ended it. Conny knew Oskar wasn't going to take his **** anymore that day on the ice and his crew knew it too. Conny just didn't want to give up his power, even when Oskar was defiant. And so he got whacked by Oskar, and I think Oskar would do so again if Conny challenged him one on one. Even if Oskar doesn't find violence to be particularly enjoyable, he at least sees violence as sometimes necessary, and that's why he's compatible with Eli.
You might be right on some level. It certainly would have been a terrible idea for Oskar to go with Eli if he was a still-unconverted pacifist, unless he cared more about her love than her violent nature, and naively thought things could work out in spite of it. But if he had learned anything from the successful fight with Conny, Why didn't he defend himself at all from Conny's brother at the pool? He could have swum away when he first approached, or simply grabbed his arm and pulled him in with him, giving him at least a chance of coming out alive. But he did absolutely nothing. And while underwater, he didn't struggle at all. IMO, he was either still pacifistic, or because Eli had left, had just given up on living. In either case, there's no indication he had become more aggressive. And of course, JAL left the aftermath to our imagination. Was he going willingly with a mass murderer or simply fleeing the carnage? He was certainly happy to see her, but who wouldn't be in that situation? ;)
We never stop reading, although every book comes to an end, just as we never stop living, although death is certain. (Roberto Bolaño)

User avatar
dongregg
Posts: 3937
Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:58 pm
Location: Atlanta
Contact:

Re: Another LTROI Review

Post by dongregg » Wed May 17, 2017 9:04 am

Passive acceptance had gotten the boy through a lot of bullying sessions. I don't see it as a reversion to passivity so much as figuring he'd get through it, like before. Outnumbered and isolated by their clever trap, he may have figured the angles and decided on the course he took. Pulling a stronger, armed guy into the water with him might have seemed like a bad idea. Swimming to the middle of the pool may have given Mr. Ávila time to come back, but the bullies would have just bided their time again. I'm going with Oskar thinking they would get tired of the game, as they had so many times before.

As to why a squeamish boy would run off with a serial killer? I don't know, either. After all, his tormentors were all dismembered by Eli. Perhaps he left with her because he could. His one chance to change everything he hated about himself and his circumstances. Or maybe just the opposite -- a weak kid taking what might have seemed the easy way out of facing all the hassles at home and at school that he imagined would follow.

His first unequivocal act of courage happened in Karlstad. Even standing up to Conny has to be seen as not wanting to be shoved into icy water. Every Swede knows that's a seriously bad place to find yourself. In Karlstad, he made a choice when he was not under such desperate pressure. IMO
“For drama to deepen, we must see the loneliness of the monster and the cunning of the innocent.”

User avatar
metoo
Posts: 3677
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:36 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Another LTROI Review

Post by metoo » Wed May 17, 2017 1:38 pm

dongregg wrote:His first unequivocal act of courage happened in Karlstad. Even standing up to Conny has to be seen as not wanting to be shoved into icy water. Every Swede knows that's a seriously bad place to find yourself. In Karlstad, he made a choice when he was not under such desperate pressure.
If we allow referring to the novel, which we might, since we apparently are allowed to refer to LtODD, there is an earlier act of (physical) courage: When Oskar slammed the Rubik's cube into Lacke's head.

Now, there is an obvious difference between the situation on the ice and the one in the bathroom. In the former, Oskar was at peril. In the latter, Eli was. I believe this difference changed a lot.
But from the beginning Eli was just Eli. Nothing. Anything. And he is still a mystery to me. John Ajvide Lindqvist

User avatar
PeteMork
Posts: 3781
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:56 pm
Location: Menlo Park, California

Re: Another LTROI Review

Post by PeteMork » Wed May 17, 2017 6:38 pm

metoo wrote:If we allow referring to the novel, which we might, since we apparently are allowed to refer to LtODD, there is an earlier act of (physical) courage: When Oskar slammed the Rubik's cube into Lacke's head.

Now, there is an obvious difference between the situation on the ice and the one in the bathroom. In the former, Oskar was at peril. In the latter, Eli was. I believe this difference changed a lot.
I wondered about this myself. Why did JAL elect to leave the Rubik's cube out of Oskar's film confrontation with Lacke? Perhaps he didn't want Oskar to seem too proactive? It might have made the pool scene less credible if Oskar was seen as actually being aggressive toward Lacke in an earlier scene. :think:
We never stop reading, although every book comes to an end, just as we never stop living, although death is certain. (Roberto Bolaño)

User avatar
ltroifanatic
Posts: 557
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2015 1:35 am
Location: Australia

Re: Another LTROI Review

Post by ltroifanatic » Thu May 18, 2017 4:07 am

They say that there is no courage without fear and poor little Oskar seems afraid of almost everything,but as the story develops we see him start to overcome his fears. Culminating in the pool scene when he leaves everything for Eli and then in LTODD when he overcomes the biggest fear and lets himself be infected.With Eli's love he has become "better,more handsome,stronger than what he thought of himself".He's become courageous too.
Please Oskar.Be me for a little while.

User avatar
metoo
Posts: 3677
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:36 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Another LTROI Review

Post by metoo » Thu May 18, 2017 4:21 am

PeteMork wrote: I wondered about this myself. Why did JAL elect to leave the Rubik's cube out of Oskar's film confrontation with Lacke? Perhaps he didn't want Oskar to seem too proactive? It might have made the pool scene less credible if Oskar was seen as actually being aggressive toward Lacke in an earlier scene. :think:
Perhaps is was (also) because including the cube in the bathroom would also include how and why Oskar got it. Especially the latter would be difficult, not having access to Oskar's thoughts.
But from the beginning Eli was just Eli. Nothing. Anything. And he is still a mystery to me. John Ajvide Lindqvist

User avatar
metoo
Posts: 3677
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:36 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Another LTROI Review

Post by metoo » Thu May 18, 2017 4:47 am

ltroifanatic wrote:They say that there is no courage without fear and poor little Oskar seems afraid of almost everything,but as the story develops we see him start to overcome his fears. Culminating in the pool scene when he leaves everything for Eli and then in LTODD when he overcomes the biggest fear and lets himself be infected.With Eli's love he has become "better,more handsome,stronger than what he thought of himself".He's become courageous too.
Well, running away isn't unequivocally brave. Wouldn't it have been more courageous of Oskar to stay and deal with his problems?

However, Oskar didn't just run away. He was bringing Eli with him, in a trunk/cardboard box (novel/movie). For some reason O&E didn't travel at night, when it would have been safe for Eli. Why? There must have been plenty of time. Well, whatever the reason, travelling in the daylight made Oskar responsible for Eli's safety, which would have required courage.
But from the beginning Eli was just Eli. Nothing. Anything. And he is still a mystery to me. John Ajvide Lindqvist

User avatar
cmfireflies
Posts: 1152
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 7:39 pm

Re: Another LTROI Review

Post by cmfireflies » Thu May 18, 2017 5:45 am

metoo wrote:Well, running away isn't unequivocally brave. Wouldn't it have been more courageous of Oskar to stay and deal with his problems?
Well the bullies' deaths wasn't his problem. He played no part in it. As for leaving with Eli, it's pretty brave, heading into the unknown, leaving everything behind, accepting Eli at the cost of the rest of the world and all of that. I'm sure Eli wasn't expecting Oskar to do that for her when she came back to him.
"When is a monster not a monster? Oh, when you love it."

Post Reply

Return to “Let The Right One In (Film)”