Does Eli dream?

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sauvin
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Re: Does Eli dream?

Post by sauvin » Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:55 pm

dongregg wrote:
cmfireflies wrote:In the novel, right before he tried to kill Eli, didn't Lacke describe her as smiling at the evil that she'd done? To me that would imply that Eli has having a nice dream about Oskar...
And she purrs in her sleep.

I mostly ignore the Eliform vampire mode of the book when it is not supported in the film. Certain things in the book are not required in the film, such as the growth near the heart referred to by the female vampire in that brief encounter. When Eli considers ending it all, she knows where to pierce her chest, which is a charming book reference to the efficacy of wooden stakes. But the major vampire themes that are in the film suffice to show Eli as "Other." Rather than being controlled by her inner vampire, I present Eli with her pre-turned personality intact -- an emasculated boy (we see the scar) presenting as a girl (Lina) -- and her irresistible urge to feed based on hunger. Drink and kill or die. Seeing Eli that way is consistent with the film. We see that irresistible urge before she kills Jocke and in the basement scene before she attacks Virginia.

What I mainly see when forum members try to clarify things in the film by appealing to the book is not clarity, but a muddy "it would follow then that..."

But this is just one Eli-lover's opinion. Another member a while back put my objections in a more realistic frame -- It's endless fun to compare the film and the book and to create a single vision from the two works of art. Sounds about right, so lay on, Macduff and don't mind me!
I think we're all intelligent and emotionally mature enough to accept that a great many different people are going to bring a great many different perspectives to the forum, and to make "allowances" for folks who've seen the movie (but not read the book), folks who've read the book but not seen the movie (well, get a move on! It's still around! You don't know what you're missing!), folks who've not seen or have dismissed LMI for various reasons, or consider LMI as "supplementary", and/or folks who've not caught the follow-up snippets in "Let the Old Dreams Die". I personally think perspectives drawn from any of these sets of circumstances are valid. Just think of them as looking at a very rare diamond from a bunch of different angles.

OK, so maybe book Eli doesn't dream. Actually, this would be rather frightening, since it's my understanding that protracted dreamlessness can have serious psychiatric implications. What we do also know, though, is that Eli's mind can follow some pretty interesting rabbit trails when she drinks blood from people taking pain management medications, and it seems pretty certain she's tripped out at least once in her life after having indirectly ingested some of the more interesting fluids, powders, herbs and mushrooms going around on the streets. A poor substitute for the real thing, I'd think, but it's a kind of dreaming.

In such matters, I can be a pretty strong proponent of "auctorial license". Eli is herself a metaphor who allows us to think and talk about some pretty complex things in a relatively simple manner, and is a specific member of a more general class of metaphor that serves the same purpose. If we're trying to say something in a story we're writing, and can't quite pull it off with reasonable plausibility "in real life", then by all means, say it with a dream! We can make allowances!

Although... you know... that "purring" in the movie while she sleeps? Um... that's not a sound a little girl makes. In fact, it's not a sound anything makes that I'd want to be around...
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Re: Does Eli dream?

Post by jkwilliams » Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:42 pm

Eli's life is so miserable the idea that he can't even escape into his own dreams is kind of depressing. Of course, if he could dream, it would probably be nothing but nightmares so maybe it's just as well.

When Virginia rests, her heartbeat and breathing practically stop and her body becomes room temperature. The book makes it sound like something closer to death than sleeping.
Virginia opened her eyes and knew she was awake. Knew it even though opening her eyelids made no difference. It was as dark as before. But her consciousness was turned on. Yes. Her consciousness came to life, and at the same time it was as if something else quickly withdrew. Like...
Maybe it is a kind of death. The infection lets the body die, repairs any damage, and then resurrects it again. :think:
Last edited by jkwilliams on Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Does Eli dream?

Post by dongregg » Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:23 am

Although... you know... that "purring" in the movie while she sleeps? Um... that's not a sound a little girl makes. In fact, it's not a sound anything makes that I'd want to be around...
Well, Sauvin, I mention the purring because it suggests a state of mind (or not). Maybe just a physical state. Sure is cute though.

In my fan fictions, Eli and Oskar don't dream. But, jk, they are not comatose because they can respond instantly (like when Oskar yelled "No!"). And at the end of film, Eli was still awake in her box and tapping Morse code in what appeared to be daylight. Shows she doesn't automatically have to sleep during the day. Probably a good idea though. Keeps her out of trouble during the time she can't move around much anyway.

Assume for a moment that the Morse code we see and hear is at the end of a longer exchange.

Tap tap tap ... Oskar, did you pack the egg puzzle?

Tap tap tap ...Yes, Eli, now go to sleep. Sheesh.
“For drama to deepen, we must see the loneliness of the monster and the cunning of the innocent.”

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metoo
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Re: Does Eli dream?

Post by metoo » Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:14 am

dongregg wrote:[...]Shows she doesn't automatically have to sleep during the day.[...]
That would be supported by the novel, too. Virginia has a struggle, but is still successful to fight the "going-to-rest process", and Eli stays awake with Oskar until dawn after having killed Lacke.
Thus, Eli being awake inside the box in the movie is consistent with the novel. Maybe it requires considerable will power, but it is possible.
But from the beginning Eli was just Eli. Nothing. Anything. And he is still a mystery to me. John Ajvide Lindqvist

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