Would Hakan's pedophila hinder the film?

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CyberGhostface
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Would Hakan's pedophila hinder the film?

Post by CyberGhostface » Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:34 pm

I think the ambiguity of his character works for the Swedish film but how do you think the film would be if his backstory and motivations for helping Eli were more clear?
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a_contemplative_life
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Re: Would Hakan's pedophila hinder the film?

Post by a_contemplative_life » Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:50 pm

Probably would have hindered it for American audiences. Not sure what the Swedes would've thought.
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dongregg
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Re: Would Hakan's pedophila hinder the film?

Post by dongregg » Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:37 pm

Per Ragnar said he just played him as a lonely man. But I think he came through as creepy. He was clearly jealous of Oskar, and he looked creepy as he watched them play.

But how could he play Håkan as a pedo without showing it on screen? If TA showed him hitting on kids (or on Eli), I think it would be a shift in what the film is about. But I also have confidence in the storytelling ability of the JAL/TA team, so I dunno...
“For drama to deepen, we must see the loneliness of the monster and the cunning of the innocent.”

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Re: Would Hakan's pedophila hinder the film?

Post by PeteMork » Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:03 am

It would indeed be a dangerous road to follow, but one way might be to include the dialogue in the book, where Hakan made his bargain with Eli to get blood. Perhaps some variation of this:
"I'll do it for you. But I want something in return."
"What is it?"
"One night. All I want is one night."
"OK."
"I can have that?"
"Yes."
"Lie next to you? Touch you?"
"Yes."
"Can I. .."
"No. Nothing more. But that. Yes."
"Then I'll do it. Tonight."
In the tradition of JAL and TA, it would tell the viewer a lot without telling all; specially if there were no other changes. Perhaps some audiences would fixate on it at the expense of the film's nuance, but perhaps they wouldn't. What do you think? Would it have added enough to be worth the risk? It would certainly change the discussion about whether or not Oskar was destined to be just another Hakan. ;)
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ltroifanatic
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Re: Would Hakan's pedophila hinder the film?

Post by ltroifanatic » Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:05 am

I agree Don.The movie is such a beautiful,delicate work of art that introducing something like pedophilia would take away from the love story.Hakan is very creepy anyway.The gym scene when the camera pans across the players and we see Hakan outside looking in gives me shivers.As for loneliness,all the characters seem to be lonely in their own way.They deal with it in a variety of ways.Drinking,over-protectiveness,daydreams of warped love,pets,memories of days long gone etc.The loneliest of all of course are Eli and Oskar.Maybe that's why we look past the serial killing and the other pretty awful things and cheer them on.They have a chance of not being lonely anymore?Such a beautiful movie. :wub:
Please Oskar.Be me for a little while.

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Re: Would Hakan's pedophila hinder the film?

Post by ltroifanatic » Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:19 am

Hi Pete.You may be right but I think as you said a dangerous path.Maybe some extra dialog to qualify things more to get past it without taking away from the love story.What does he mean by "touch"?Touch him where and with what?What has Eli done with other "helpers"?A real Pandora's Box.But JAL/TA are such a good team who knows.I think with some thought they could get away with it.
Please Oskar.Be me for a little while.

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Re: Would Hakan's pedophila hinder the film?

Post by dongregg » Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:23 am

ltroifanatic wrote:I agree Don.The movie is such a beautiful,delicate work of art that introducing something like pedophilia would take away from the love story.Hakan is very creepy anyway.The gym scene when the camera pans across the players and we see Hakan outside looking in gives me shivers.As for loneliness,all the characters seem to be lonely in their own way.They deal with it in a variety of ways.Drinking,over-protectiveness,daydreams of warped love,pets,memories of days long gone etc.The loneliest of all of course are Eli and Oskar.Maybe that's why we look past the serial killing and the other pretty awful things and cheer them on.They have a chance of not being lonely anymore?Such a beautiful movie. :wub:
Great observations. Ávila seemingly in his own world. The barflies, certainly. Gösta and his cats. Oskar's mom trying to hang onto a younger Oskar. Oskar's dad. I think "[Eli and Oskar] have a chance of not being lonely anymore" is a wonderful insight into why we root for them no matter what. :wub:
“For drama to deepen, we must see the loneliness of the monster and the cunning of the innocent.”

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Re: Would Hakan's pedophila hinder the film?

Post by PeteMork » Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:59 am

Upon giving this even more thought, adding this bit of dialogue implies an even grimmer future for Oskar in at least one case: (A,_) If viewers of the film think Eli is definitely a girl in spite of the 'reveal' scene, then if these same viewers believe the 'endless helper' theory (A,A), Håkan has evolved from loving Eli as an innocent child into a Sauvin-inspired older, dispirited, disillusioned old man who now seeks a physical relationship with her; a strange, twisted sort of pedophilia that we could almost sympathize with.

On the other hand if the viewer thinks Eli is definitely a girl (A,_), and believes, as I do, that Oskar is Eli's first love (A,B), then this same viewer will recognize that Håkan is more likely a traditional pedophile, and not so sympathetic. And there are other possibilities too... ; think: (B,A) and (B,B) where (B,_) comprises all those who know Eli is a boy.

Thanks for the thread, CyberGhostface. It could get interesting. At least, to a fanatic LTROI fan. :P
We never stop reading, although every book comes to an end, just as we never stop living, although death is certain. (Roberto Bolaño)

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a_contemplative_life
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Re: Would Hakan's pedophila hinder the film?

Post by a_contemplative_life » Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:01 am

Maybe one thing they might have done would have been to add a line of dialogue to make the audience understand how recently their relationship had begun.
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Re: Would Hakan's pedophila hinder the film?

Post by metoo » Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:14 am

I believe TA and JAL mentions this in the Swedish version of director's comments.

Anyway, paedophilia is such a difficult and sensitive subject that it would require a whole movie just by itself. I believe that was the reason it was left out. Apparently, it wasn't even discussed - Per Ragnar didn't know about it while recording. He played a very lonely man, as he had said in an interview.
But from the beginning Eli was just Eli. Nothing. Anything. And he is still a mystery to me. John Ajvide Lindqvist

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