You know the feeling...

[Lacenaire]

No offense, but have you read the novel(LTROI) properly yet?
Yeah, there are key evidences in LTROI too, but what they imply is surely not any kind of manipulation on the part of the "monster".

I have it here. I also have a question. No offence, but have you actually ever read any (serious) novel by a recognised great writer?

What the ....? How could I have missed this!!

To paraphrase Zbigniew Brzezinski, “The depth of your arrogance is breathtaking!” I have repeatedly tried to imagine the great contributions you must have made to mankind that would justify the abrasive, condescending manner with which you constantly address some members of this forum due to some largely imaginary personal offence you perceive, but frankly, I find it much easier to come up with a satisfactorily happy ending to LTROI, than to conjure up such an improbable real-life scenario -- sans duct tape. Perhaps you could fill in the blanks for us so we can understand the proper groveling index we should maintain to address you in a way that causes no offense and avoids excessive rhetorical bloviation.

The amount of energy required to maintain this vast superiority/persecution complex must certainly be capable of supplying power to the entire depraved suburb of Blackeberg! Why don’t you try putting it to better use? It would make life much easier for us less fortunate, functionally illiterate, members of mankind, and you could add it to your obviously huge list of prior magnanimous contributions to society.

No offense but …. I mean this in the nicest possible way.

At least I seem to have inspired the most impressive piece of rhetorical writing I have seen for a while. This thread also keeps growing.

Please, relax, none of that was ever meant with the degree of seriousness you seem to ascribe to it .

That "rhetorical question" about "(serious) novel by a recognised great writer" was meant, of course, as a little provocation and seems to have produced even more fireworks than I expected (though not quite from the expected source ). I actually forgot about it, but now that you reminded me of it, it does seem little too crudely phrased. No offence was meant but I apologise if any was caused.

Sorry, I cannot elaborate on my " great contributions to mankind" - due to my desire to preserve anonymity and also their very esoteric nature and my natural modesty. I really have no superiority/persecution complex at all. If it seems otherwise I blame it on the sort of things the Internet does to people. (But its kind of addictive, I have to say).

PS 1. I have now read Lindqvist's novel. My impressions could be quite provocative.
PS 2. Having read the book, I really can't see why you think Blackeberg so "depraved" . It actually seems a pretty common sort of place. For example, I am right now in a place that is a kind world "symbol of enlightenment" and parts of it look worse than Blackeberg. Later today I will be in yet another country, where I will be meeting people very much like the inhabitants of Blackeberg practically every day. So if I used my "powers of enlightenment" for the purpose you suggest, I would have been long ago in a worse condition than Eli would be on an uninhabited island.
PS 3. What made you quote Brzezinski of all people?

[PeteMork]

At least I seem to have inspired the most impressive piece of rhetorical writing I have seen for a while. This thread also keeps growing.

Please, relax, none of that was ever meant with the degree of seriousness you seem to ascribe to it .

That "rhetorical question" about "(serious) novel by a recognised great writer" was meant, of course, as a little provocation and seems to have produced even more fireworks than I expected (though not quite from the expected source ). I actually forgot about it, but now that you reminded me of it, it does seem little too crudely phrased. No offence was meant but I apologise if any was caused.

Sorry, I cannot elaborate on my " great contributions to mankind" - due to my desire to preserve anonymity and also their very esoteric nature and my natural modesty. I really have no superiority/persecution complex at all. If it seems otherwise I blame it on the sort of things the Internet does to people. (But its kind of addictive, I have to say).

Boy you’re good at this! I think I have seriously underestimated you, but possibly not for the reasons you may think. On the other hand, since I have your attention, please do me this one favor: Ease up on the personal attacks on forum members. If I am wrong, as you suggest, and you don’t have an ego problem, it should be quite easy for you to comply. Whether you realize it or not, people generally do not enjoy being told that they are stupid, easily fooled, and have ideas and thoughts that are valueless. This site is sprinkled throughout with comments by you, which, on their face, seem to be deliberate attempts at provocation and, are quite frankly, insulting to many of us. That being said, I’m quite happy to take you at your word; and apologize if I misinterpreted your motivations. As I have said in previous posts, I enjoy your take on many of these subjects and look forward to disagreeing with you on many of them in the future.

PS 1. I have now read Lindqvist's novel. My impressions could be quite provocative.

I am genuinely (I really mean it!) looking forward to your posts in the Novel Discussion area. Now we can get down to business.

PS 2. Having read the book, I really can't see why you think Blackeberg so "depraved" . It actually seems a pretty common sort of place. For example, I am right now in a place that is a kind world "symbol of enlightenment" and parts of it look worse than Blackeberg. Later today I will be in yet another country, where I will be meeting people very much like the inhabitants of Blackeberg practically every day. So if I used my "powers of enlightenment" for the purpose you suggest, I would have been long ago in a worse condition than Eli would be on an uninhabited island.

Actually, I got that description of Blackeberg from an offhand comment JAL himself made in an interview, but I can’t remember which one, off the top of my head.

PS 3. What made you quote Brzezinski of all people?

It was paraphrased (with a touch of poetic license) from a comment he made during a heated interview with a to-be-unnamed talk-show host with an inflated ego, who was displaying his ignorance about the Middle East. The phrase was actually “…The depth of your ignorance is breathtaking!” I was especially fond of that particular interview, because he left no survivors.

[Lacenaire]

Boy you’re good at this! I think I have seriously underestimated you, but possibly not for the reasons you may think. On the other hand, since I have your attention, please do me this one favor: Ease up on the personal attacks on forum members. If I am wrong, as you suggest, and you don’t have an ego problem, it should be quite easy for you to comply. Whether you realize it or not, people generally do not enjoy being told that they are stupid, easily fooled, and have ideas and thoughts that are valueless. This site is sprinkled throughout with comments by you, which, on their face, seem to be deliberate attempts at provocation and, are quite frankly, insulting to many of us. That being said, I’m quite happy to take you at your word; and apologize if I misinterpreted your motivations. As I have said in previous posts, I enjoy your take on many of these subjects and look forward to disagreeing with you on many of them in the future.

Well, I guess I have been assuming that a “personal attack” has to be directed at a specific person and I tried to avoid it unless explicitly provoked. (admittedly, I get easily provoked and have a little bit of vampire-Eli inside me, so I try to never get involved in such discussions in “the real world” except with people who I know very well). I think almost all of these “personal attacks” (the one you quoted being perhaps an exception), were not addressed at specific persons, though no doubt certain people could see themselves as implicit targets. But it all seemed to me to be within the rules.

I certainly do not enjoy insulting people, but I suppose there are several reasons why it seems to you that I do. One is that I am not used to Internet forums and find the“genteel” tone of fan forums rather bland and the hyper-agressive and crude one of many the other kind unbearable (it really awakens the vampire-Eli in me) . It’s due to a different culture of discussion - when my Japanese wife visited our home and heard me discussing things with my father she thought we were always having a fight. Even after many year of marriage she she can’t get used to my style of arguing.
Another factor must be that I find myself here debating with people who are often younger than my daughter and even most of my students, and I am not used to that. (Arguing with my daughter is the toughest. She knows me so well and is logical and so merciless that I usually come off worse.)
Another element is boredom with the blandness and the repetitiveness of a lot of discussion.

Nothing that I have written was intended solely as a provocation - I really thought what I wrote at the time (but what I think about such matters is constantly changing) but I have on purpose greatly exaggerated the strength of emotion behind my words. That was just trying to add spice to what felt like an increasingly bland dish. In that sense there was an element of provocation. I could have put it much more mildly but would have found it rather boring myself.

I certainly don’t at all mind following your advice to “ease up on the personal attacks on forum members”, though it will require more self-censorship (actually I have already been doing that - many of my posts got re-written several times to make them sound milder), and I am not sure if I will find myself with anything that will still seem worth writing.

(It's really lucky we haven't seriously discussed politics here )

PS 3. What made you quote Brzezinski of all people?

It was paraphrased (with a touch of poetic license) from a comment he made during a heated interview with a to-be-unnamed talk-show host with an inflated ego, who was displaying his ignorance about the Middle East. The phrase was actually “…The depth of your ignorance is breathtaking!” I was especially fond of that particular interview, because he left no survivors.

I see. I was beginning to get worried as I actually know him (slightly) personally (from his visits to Poland) . Actually I think your paraphrase applies to him perfectly.

[gattoparde59]

Another factor must be that I find myself here debating with people who are often younger than my daughter and even most of my students, and I am not used to that.

Only confirming what I already knew anyway.

I get easily provoked and have a little bit of vampire-Eli inside me, so I try to never get involved in such discussions in “the real world” except with people who I know very well

The rule I try to follow is don't put anything on the internet you would not say to a person face to face.

Another element is boredom with the blandness and the repetitiveness of a lot of discussion.

That is fine, but beware the same fate does not overtake you.

[Lacenaire]

Another factor must be that I find myself here debating with people who are often younger than my daughter and even most of my students, and I am not used to that.

Only confirming what I already knew anyway.

Sorry, next time I will try to be less predictable (if there is one, of course ).

I get easily provoked and have a little bit of vampire-Eli inside me, so I try to never get involved in such discussions in “the real world” except with people who I know very well

The rule I try to follow is don't put anything on the internet you would not say to a person face to face.

Using a screen name like "Lacenaire" imposes certain constraints on what one can write or say without making oneself ridiculous.

But as a matter of fact, I have also been following your rule most of my life (by not joining Internet forums). Still, thanks for the advice.

Another element is boredom with the blandness and the repetitiveness of a lot of discussion.

That is fine, but beware the same fate does not overtake you.

Yes, it has been always my main concern. I don't care at all about any other things people might think about me but I would hate to think I was boring. Again, thanks for reminding me of this.

PS. But if it's boring why does this thread get so many views? Why so many posts? There are so many threads where everybody is nice and polite and perfect harmony reigns but somehow they get few views and even fewer posts.

[Wolfchild]

I have started at least four or five posts in this thread that I never posted. They each would have expressed irritation or downright anger at something that has gone on here. However, I try to hold myself to higher standard of conduct here than elsewhere on the net, so I refrained from posting. One at least occasion I came close to locking this thread.

People need to remember that facial expression, tone of voice, and body language cannot be communicated here. Only words (and the occasional pic). This is the raison d'etre for the collection of emoticons that you see to the right as you are composing a post. They are a net-enabled substitute for body language. That aside, if your words are relying on a meta-message to be understood, you must ensure that your words carry that as well.

PS. But if it's boring why does this thread get so many views? Why so many posts? There are so many threads where everybody is nice and polite and perfect harmony reigns but somehow they get few views and even fewer posts.

BTW: I wouldn't judge the success of a thread by how many views it gets. The Jerry Springer Show gets more viewers than The Universe, but I doubt there is any question about which is the better show.

Now - does anyone remember what the OT was?

[gattoparde59]

BTW: I wouldn't judge the success of a thread by how many views it gets. The Jerry Springer Show gets more viewers than The Universe, but I doubt there is any question about which is the better show.

Now - does anyone remember what the OT was?

Good point, and I would add that many people stop to gape at car wrecks as well.

As for the original topic, I will cover my eyes and try and remember. it was Microwave Jellyfish expressing his displeasure with people who want to see Eli as an evil seductress. Now I will go back and look.

[PeteMork]

I have started at least four or five posts in this thread that I never posted. They each would have expressed irritation or downright anger at something that has gone on here. However, I try to hold myself to higher standard of conduct here than elsewhere on the net, so I refrained from posting. One at least occasion I came close to locking this thread.

People need to remember that facial expression, tone of voice, and body language cannot be communicated here. Only words (and the occasional pic). This is the raison d'etre for the collection of emoticons that you see to the right as you are composing a post. They are a net-enabled substitute for body language. That aside, if your words are relying on a meta-message to be understood, you must ensure that your words carry that as well.

PS. But if it's boring why does this thread get so many views? Why so many posts? There are so many threads where everybody is nice and polite and perfect harmony reigns but somehow they get few views and even fewer posts.

BTW: I wouldn't judge the success of a thread by how many views it gets. The Jerry Springer Show gets more viewers than The Universe, but I doubt there is any question about which is the better show.

I would like to apologize to the rest of this forum for taking this detour on what has become a more personal thread. If we have irritated anyone with our exchanges, I am truly sorry! I am keenly aware that I broke my own rules and the relative serenity of this forum by even speaking out in such an aggressive manner at all! I especially thank Wolfchild for allowing this part of the thread to die a natural death.

[sauvin]

I would like to apologize to the rest of this forum for taking this detour on what has become a more personal thread. If we have irritated anyone with our exchanges, I am truly sorry! I am keenly aware that I broke my own rules and the relative serenity of this forum by even speaking out in such an aggressive manner at all! I especially thank Wolfchild for allowing this part of the thread to die a natural death.

I'll be back.

I should have realized it was never our destiny to stop Judgment Day, it was merely to survive it, together.

[BadWolf]

Just dredging up some old discussions from back in the day. There certainly were some thought provoking ones that's for sure....I wonder whatever happened to Lacenaire? Used to have some great arguments with him.