We, The Infected

One thing that does not get mentioned that often are the acting of Oskar's bullies, which I find incredible Even though it is easy to miss in the proximinty of Lina and Kåre. Especially that of Patrik Rydmark as Conny/Jonny and Rasmus Luthander as Jimmy. Conny/Jonny strikes me as extremly arrogant, picking on Oskar simply because he is an easy target. You can really tell that at the ice when Oskar strikes back, the thought never occur to him that Oskar can possible have the guts to strike back, and is entirely shocked when Oskar beats him. He also seems to be a person that rather makes others do his work whan doing it himself.

Jimmy strike me as being mostly a thrillseeker who takes every opportunity to be in control. What is made clear for me at the pool scene when Conny have second thoughts about the revenge when he tells him to "shut up" is that he do not do this for his brothers sake, it is only as an excuse for him to fulfill his own sick fantasies. He would never let Oskar leave alive. He also have an extremly terrifying presence, especially when he tells everyone to "get out". What are the opinion of the rest of the infected on these young actors and how they portray the bullies?

I'm glad you posted this thread, G.o.V. I was recently musing on the differences between the bullies in LTROI and the LMI bullies, particularly the "Conny" character (I can't remember the names in LMI).

In LMI, the scene where the audience in introduced to the "Conny" character's older brother, we see the older brother be abusive towards "Conny" and, after roughing him up, he walks away calling "Conny" a little girl...the same insult "Conny" uses repeatedly towards Owen. This makes Matt Reeves' head bully seem a bit worthy of sympathy, since one reason he's acting out against others is that he is being bullied by his older brother. Personally, I think it's cliche and a bit of a cop-out, since in the novel "Jonny" and "Jimmy" have a pretty good relationship.

In LTROI, Conny and Jimmy also have a good rapport. Where Jimmy roughs up Conny, there is the usual big brother-younger brother banter, but it is good-natured. One gets the sense that Conny is not being a bully to act out against any big brother abuse, but rather to emulate his older sibling. At the pool, one also gets the sense that Conny gets nervous just because he's younger than Jimmy and isn't yet as tough/vicious as the older boy; neither is worthy of any sympathy.

In both films, the young actors portraying the bullies do a fine job. When an actor is portraying a "bad guy," it is often a tricky role: It's easy to go over-the-top, to go from being a character to being a caricature. I feel these young actors managed to avoid that.

God of Vampires wrote:One thing that does not get mentioned that often are the acting of Oskar's bullies, which I find incredible Even though it is easy to miss in the proximinty of Lina and Kåre. Especially that of Patrik Rydmark as Conny/Jonny and Rasmus Luthander as Jimmy. Conny/Jonny strikes me as extremly arrogant, picking on Oskar simply because he is an easy target. You can really tell that at the ice when Oskar strikes back, the thought never occur to him that Oskar can possible have the guts to strike back, and is entirely shocked when Oskar beats him. He also seems to be a person that rather makes others do his work whan doing it himself.

I had a completely different view of Conny out on the ice. To me, it had a classic "alpha male" dynamic to it. Martin and Andreas are kind of oblivious to it, being only worried about incurring the wrath of Magister Avila. However Conny is all too aware of it. He sees in Oskar's defiance a threat to his status as alpha male of his little pack of bullies. To maintain his status, he must remain unchallenged in eyes of the others. If he were on the ice facing Oskar without others, my sense is that he would just blow it off. It's not that he feels emboldened by having Martin and Andreas as back-up, he feels that he must not back down in front of them. Conny keeps looking over his shoulder - not at Avila - but at Martin and Andreas. When the three of them came skating up to Oskar, it was Conny out in front, leading the way. Having led them there, he could not then turn around and go back in front of them. The theatrical subtitles do a better job of conveying this when they translate Conny as saying, "Are we supposed to just let him stand there?" (as opposed to the Magnolia subs, which say, "So are you just going to stand there?").

For me, this same dynamic was also apparent in the whipping scene. Conny is not enjoying tormenting Oskar so much as he is reveling in his role of alpha male. He is enjoying directing the action. He is enjoying feeling like he is in control. Things escalate because all three of the bullies sense that they are not controlling Oskar; he has not submitted to the demand to give up the paper, nor has he started crying when Andreas whips his legs. Conny indicates to Martin to escalate the situation, but then goes too far. Ultimately, Oskar caused Conny to lose that confrontation because Conny could never make him comply. This is why Conny is so aggressive out on the ice. He feels that his social status is dependent upon his being able demonstrate that he is in charge, and in the whipping scene he was shown to not be in charge.

This is then borne out later when Martin and Andreas tease Conny after Jimmy roughs him up a bit - his social status has decreased. I thought that between Tomas and JAL, this portrayal of the bullying was very insightful.

I do agree that Patrik Rydmark and Rasmus Luthander did a good job in their respective roles, but I feel that would not have been possible if the script had not understood their characters so well.

Yet another reason why I love this movie and forum.

Another take on the move I had not seen, and more to think about!!!

Wolfchild's alpha male comment made me think of Lord of the Flies, the power struggle on the island. Golding's story also has a Piggy, although he's much different than Oskar.
I think the bullies, however, have a lot in common with Jack Merridew and his gang of hunters.

to me it really felt like those bullies had a disfunctional home..well Conny at least....and released their anger/frustation on Oskar

The cycle of abuse, what a fearsome engine of negativity it is, in so many people's lives.

How it thunders through the generations, ancient and implacable as the angry dead, cold as the Arctic wind.

I had a completely different view of Conny out on the ice. To me, it had a classic "alpha male" dynamic to it.

Completely agreed Wolfchild. I've always noticed that about Alfredson's depiction of the bullies. To me its the old Animal Kingdom motif, that they have power over him and its about keeping that power over him. For them I think its simply about keeping Oskar in line. A theme that even goes back to the book. If you boil the book down to the basics in the interactions between Oskar and the Bullies it goes like this

Bullies oppress Oskar on a daily basis and make his life a living hell keeping him in line.
They whip him, once again keeping him in line
Oskar fights back disrupting the balance of power and thus giving Oskar some new found confidence AND dominance
The bullies begin somewhat fear Oskar for a short period
They then regain their power though by threatening to push Oskar in front of a train...thus regaining their dominance over him
Oskar then lights the desk on fire in an act of retaliation
Which of course leads to the final act of dominance from the bullies in the pool sequence

What I've always noticed about the book in that regard is the very 1-upmanship if you will. As in Johnny (Connie, did they change that for the english copy of the book btw?) makes Oskar's life a living hell, Oskar gets his back, then Johnny gets his back and so on...it really does feel like the struggle of domination when you look at it and strip it down to the basics.

I looked at the bullying in the book as very much being a struggle for dominance...and I've always thought of the Animal Kingdom motif in regards to the book.

I think Alfredson's film captures the essence of that quite well, although it does tend to filter the brutality of it. I always found Connie in the film as the little bastard (if you will) that knew he had dominance over Oskar and it was about keeping him in line on a daily basis. Hence the pool scene, I don't think its Connie's intent to kill Oskar in the movie, other than to regain that dominant position. Even though Alfredson does filter a lot of the brutality of the book. It still captures the idea of that power struggle for dominance though.

DMt. wrote:As to the bullies themselves, except in the case of the outright sociopaths [who may, apparently, number as many as 1:30 of the human population] I can only imagine that they, in their turn, are dumping their own abuse on their victims.

My own experience is that bullies are essentially spoiled brats - while I cannot vouch that they were never abused, this makes me sceptical of the explanation of it being a cycle.