Eli at the Hospital Window

[sauvin]

I was just trying to point out that there are some details in this scene that match up with ones in the Cancer Lady scene from the novel. And since JAL also wrote the screenplay, it's hard for me to believe that that's just a coincidence.

I'm sorry for any confusion.

I am also sorry if there's confusion. I meant neither attack nor counter-attack, and found your observation astute, relevant and interesting.

It seems like any one of us accusing another of being overanalytical is a lot like the pot calling the kettle black. We've strained the source material through an exceedingly fine sieve looking for clues, hints and explanations for various things over the years; sometimes, it produces an "Aha!", sometimes it produces a "Oh, darn", but most of the time, a question just begets more questions and a few "dubya tee effs" (or, as the shepherd said, "what the flock..?")

One of the larger truths that seems to have emerged is that JAL didn't pay too close attention either to the vampire mythos in specific or to technical detail in general. We've found inconsistencies, and this may be one of them. If he didn't cross every 'i' or dot every 't', I personally find it very easy to forgive because his attention to human dynamics was keen, and maybe even incisive. JAL succeeded in stripping forty years away from this irascible old codger and leaving a long-forgotten sensitive and vulnerable twelve year old behind asking "what in the name of fudged cupcakes just happened!?"

It was with this in mind that I agreed with Marlow in preferring to interpret the story consistently with what seems to be the intended narrative arc rather than with forensic rigour. Even though I often use the novel to help fill in some of the voids left in the movie, it does also remain true that the movie drifts away from the original novel on occasion in unimportant ways. These "unimportant" differences don't always coexist comfortably in the mind of a man whose training demands that nothing relevant be left out and nothing irrelevant be included, with every part of a design mated and matched perfectly with every other part.

Another larger truth that I've taken from the novel is probably best summarised by the reviewer of the movie who said that the movie was remarkable in managing to be everything it's not (or was that in managing not to be everything that it was...?) - a vampire movie that wasn't really about a vampire, a coming of age story where nobody really came of age. The vampirism itself is a red herring, just something to be distracted (or mesmerised) by; the only real purpose in having Eli be a vampire to begin with just seems to have been to separate her from humanity as much as possible without explicitly making her not human.

I'll agree, then, that if Eli was looped out by having consumed Cancer Lady's presumably generously opiated blood, she should have been flying barrel rolls and wobbly hard left banks all the way from the hospital to Oskar's bedroom window - and who knows? Maybe she did. The somber look seen on her face after having watched Hakan die, technically, probably should have been a bit more spaced out, but it wasn't. She looked sober, if not a bit somber. It's this look, in tandem with the similarly sober look on her face as she peered through the hospital window just moments before he opened it to offer himself to her that makes me believe that she had regarded him with somewhat less than utter contempt. The expression on her face said to me "I just ate my minder - now what am I supposed to do!?"

[Marlow]

I'd like to jump in here and second Sauvin by saying that there was no intent to attack an interesting observation. On my part and, I think it can be generally said of most on this forum, that debate about LTROI is a matter of degrees of interpretation not absolutes. But, even when it is a matter of diametrically opposed critique, it is all meant to be a pleasurable discussion for those that love LTROI.
I found jkwilliams' observation and hypothesis very interesting. I had not thought of it before. As I said in my initial comments it made perfect sense scientifically. It is tough on the Internet to have a conversation. What can be clarified in minutes face-to-face is often misunderstood in a written forum. I definitely want to hear the observations of those with a different viewpoint from my own. A point of disagreement or a critique is not meant to negate another's observation.
Some movies are made in a few days or weeks, with very limited budgets, and are imperfectly realized. Some movies are made with years of planning and huge budgets and are imperfectly realized. There is fun to be had looking for small errors like continuity bloopers, e.g. Eli's dress in the bathtub appearing out of sequence, to huge errors that make one wonder how professionals could put together a movie and have it make no sense whatsoever. That LTROI, a small budget movie, wasn't error-free is no surprise. Even when the author of the book supervises the screenplay, the needs of the film may override his oversight. I find LTROI to be amazingly true to the book given that it's a film that had to be limited to a length of under two hours and the author wasn't making the directorial decisions. Could Eli's expression at the hospital be a reference to an opiated state? It could. I didn't think of that at the time I saw the movie, but it could've been the case. For me, and others, the weight given to Eli's expression was related to the theme of loss in LTROI. An alternate and arguably valid interpretation.
One observation that I continue to make is related to my having seen LTROI as a film first and only. It succeeds as such. For those that knew that a book existed that was the basis for LTROI, their impressions and observations represent a viewpoint that differs from those that did not. Both observational viewpoints give a different perspective. Both are interesting, but different.

[jkwilliams]

Good grief, you guys are making me feel guilty.
I never meant to suggest that Eli doesn't feel bad about losing Håkan and I'm sorry if anyone took it that way.

My interpretation was based entirely on the belief that JAL is using morphine in the story as a way to explain Eli's behavior in the bedroom scene. That's it... O&E suddenly go from sharing an awkward little hug by the candy shop in one scene to sharing a bed in their next one. That's kind of a big leap there especially when you consider how cautious Eli has been in their relationship up to that point. It can be explained by Eli just feeling sad or lonely after Håkan's death but I get the impression that JAL didn't think that was enough so he incorporated the morphine detail from the novel. It's not really an either-or argument for me because I think both interpretations work perfectly fine together.

[Jameron]

Good grief, you guys are making me feel guilty.
I never meant to suggest that Eli doesn't feel bad about losing Håkan and I'm sorry if anyone took it that way.

I'm not convinced that Eli actually does feel bad about losing Håkan, in that sense. I don't think she was emotionally attached to him.

Sure, Håkan provided blood for her, rented flats for them (Dead people's money though), organised travel etc, but I didn't get the impression that she was ever fond of him (in the book she is more conflicted, but not so in the film). I think she felt a certain responsibility towards him but it was lacking any kind of emotional depth. I think she was using him, but at the same time wasn't being completely heartless about it. She was using his attraction to her as a weapon, to get him to do things for her. The emotions were all flowing in one direction, from Håkan to Eli.

That's not to say that she didn't feel a loss at his death. I think it was a mixture of her loss and a sense of being responsible for his death. 'Her loss' is having to now fend for herself, she has lost a useful (if not sometimes inept) servant. I know that sounds like Eli is being very selfish there, and in a way she is. But she is only twelve years old after all. At this point in the story she is still on a journey of self reassessment, she is still trying to work out everything revolving around Oskar, and what it means for her. She is no longer the humanity-less creature she once was, but she still isn't quite there yet on her rediscovery of what it means to care.

My interpretation was based entirely on the belief that JAL is using morphine in the story as a way to explain Eli's behavior in the bedroom scene. That's it... O&E suddenly go from sharing an awkward little hug by the candy shop in one scene to sharing a bed in their next one. That's kind of a big leap there especially when you consider how cautious Eli has been in their relationship up to that point. It can be explained by Eli just feeling sad or lonely after Håkan's death but I get the impression that JAL didn't think that was enough so he incorporated the morphine detail from the novel. It's not really an either-or argument for me because I think both interpretations work perfectly fine together.

I think your point is perfectly logical and very astute. Both in the book, and in the film, Eli is on pain meds as she enters Oskar's room. Like you say, it seems that John feels that it is important for Eli to have lowered inhibitions in order to progress. If you like ... in order to let Oskar in.

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[jetboy]

I would hate to think that the bedroom scene was tainted with drugs. I feel Eli's lack of inhibition is because she is more mature and experienced than Oskar despite her appearance.

[sauvin]

I would hate to think that the bedroom scene was tainted with drugs. I feel Eli's lack of inhibition is because she is more mature and experienced than Oskar despite her appearance.

In vino veritas.

[drakkar]

I think the key scene here is when Eil learns from the radio news that Håkan is hospitalised.
Does he show any sign of anxiety, sorrow or compassion? No, just plain determination.
He shows some compassion when he enters the situation on the window ledge, but doesnt hesitate much upon biting Håkan.
Then a glimpse of content before the vampire brain steps back, letting Eli realise that he now once again is utter alone, save one person.

[a_contemplative_life]

Take this with a grain of salt (Wikipedia), but the info about Morphine suggests that what we read in the novel may have been exaggerated. I suppose one can always retreat into the unknown qualities of vampire physiology...

Most reviews conclude that opioids produce minimal impairment of human performance on tests of sensory, motor, or attentional abilities. However, recent studies have been able to show some impairments caused by morphine, which is not surprising, given that morphine is a central nervous system depressant. Morphine has resulted in impaired functioning on critical flicker frequency (a measure of overall CNS arousal) and impaired performance on the Maddox Wing test (a measure of deviation of the visual axes of the eyes). Few studies have investigated the effects of morphine on motor abilities; a high dose of morphine can impair finger tapping and the ability to maintain a low constant level of isometric force (i.e. fine motor control is impaired),[57] though no studies have shown a correlation between morphine and gross motor abilities.

In terms of cognitive abilities, one study has shown that morphine may have a negative impact on anterograde and retrograde memory,[58] but these effects are minimal and are transient. Overall, it seems that acute doses of opioids in non-tolerant subjects produce minor effects in some sensory and motor abilities, and perhaps also in attention and cognition. It is likely that the effects of morphine will be more pronounced in opioid-naive subjects than chronic opioid users.

[Jameron]

I would hate to think that the bedroom scene was tainted with drugs. I feel Eli's lack of inhibition is because she is more mature and experienced than Oskar despite her appearance.

I'm sorry you see it as 'tainted' if Eli was slightly under the influence of a pain relief drug.

If it helps, I see the effect of the drug on Eli as no more than a couple of glasses of wine, just enough to take the edge off. I know I suggested that Eli was 'high' but that was a tongue in cheek comment and wasn't meant to be taken literally. Witness the effect of the cancer woman's meds on Eli; unable to stand, hallucinating, total failure of reality. Now compare that to what we see in the film, in the bedroom ... none of that. I'm guessing Håkan wasn't on morphine. The inhibitions I was referring to was her guarded approach to everything. She was guarded out of concerns for safety. This was a self imposed inhibition, not at all like a socially awkward inhibition which is not desired or sought after. I'm sure there is a bit of fear of opening up mixed in for good measure.

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[Jameron]

I think the key scene here is when Eil learns from the radio news that Håkan is hospitalised.
Does he show any sign of anxiety, sorrow or compassion? No, just plain determination.
He shows some compassion when he enters the situation on the window ledge, but doesnt hesitate much upon biting Håkan.
Then a glimpse of content before the vampire brain steps back, letting Eli realise that he now once again is utter alone, save one person.

This.

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