First morse scene in Eli's flat

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SilentBob
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Re: First morse scene in Eli's flat

Post by SilentBob » Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:34 am

Hej,...
Ash wrote: Poor Hakan was living in the worst of worlds imaginable. Infatuated with and murdering for a 12 year old vampire who really had no feelings for him.
I'm not convinced, that Eli had no feelings for him (at least in the film).
"Feeling lonely and content at the same time, I believe, is a rare kind of happiness."

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drakkar
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Re: First morse scene in Eli's flat

Post by drakkar » Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:36 am

Well in the first part of book I got that Eli loved Håkan in her/his own damaged way. All Eli knows about love is it means helping each other to survive. This was what (s)he had resorted to, or resigned to. Notice (still book) how ELi's relationship towards Håkan slowly changes when Oskar enters the stage and it dawns to Eli love is more than just that.
The film doesn't include this, instead I think it shows Eli getting closer to Oskar just as in the book, and that is the other half of it. So yes, I think film Eli cared for Håkan, he was all (s)he got. But I think she also deep down disliked him, so maybe "put up with" is the correcdt phrase.
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jonjon_z
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Re: First morse scene in Eli's flat

Post by jonjon_z » Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:18 am

Ash wrote:I think she enjoyed her power over Hakan and the fact she could order him around and do what she liked.
Poor Hakan was living in the worst of worlds imaginable. Infatuated with and murdering for a 12 year old vampire who really had no feelings for him.
Like an abused housewife, he stayed because he had nowhere else to go and had no life outside of her.
I wouldn't say Eli would henpeck Hakan she wasn't exactly a spoiled brat. I think Hakan was fearful of Eli when she was in starvation mode and had that tone of voice. He knew he messed up and didn't want to become lunch so he became submissive. Hakan didn't have any problems berating Eli after she killed Locke. Of course we can't hear the conversations but the shadows on the window say a lot.

I have to agree there is nothing in film to suggest Eli had any feelings for Hakan. Her expression in the "touch" scene is too obscure to be interpreted one way or another. To those who read the book it's a twisted kind of love-hate relationship but to Eli is her idea of what love is before she met Oskar.
"Can we die?" "Of course we can." Eli put his hand on his heart, felt the slow beats. Maybe it was because he was a child. Maybe that was why he hadn't put an end to it. The pangs of conscience were weaker than his will to live.

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Ash
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Re: First morse scene in Eli's flat

Post by Ash » Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:34 am

I also get the impression that Eli maybe felt sorry for Hakan, to the extent she saved his life, and allowed him to periodically grope her as a reward for finding her food. In neither the book or film does she show outright hatred for him. More a pity or understanding of his situation. I say understanding because she recognises they're not so different, as they both have an illness they have no control over.

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drakkar
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Re: First morse scene in Eli's flat

Post by drakkar » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:25 am

Ash wrote:I also get the impression that Eli maybe felt sorry for Hakan, to the extent she saved his life, and allowed him to periodically grope her as a reward for finding her food.
She felt sorry for him at the hospital (but didn't show any compassion when she heard on the radio Håkan was hospitalized). She even sort of cared for him when suggesting he shouldn't go getting blood.
For the heart life is simple. It beats as long as it can.
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crazychristina
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Re: First morse scene in Eli's flat

Post by crazychristina » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:36 am

Ash wrote:I think she enjoyed her power over Hakan and the fact she could order him around and do what she liked.
Poor Hakan was living in the worst of worlds imaginable. Infatuated with and murdering for a 12 year old vampire who really had no feelings for him.
Like an abused housewife, he stayed because he had nowhere else to go and had no life outside of her.
This is true, but from the book he had no life when Eli first picked him up. An alcoholic down and outer with no future. At least Eli gave him some reason to live

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drakkar
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Re: First morse scene in Eli's flat

Post by drakkar » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:53 am

This is an important factor. Håkan knew what he was doing, he never approached any kids, so he didn't break any laws. And then he was let down by the society because he broke a moral code (buying pedophilic books/mags). So he was an outcast like Eli, but unlike her he responded to that by starting drinking himself to death when Eli found him. So in a way the society's unfair treatment of Håkan led to the circumstances that made him a serial killer for Eli.
For the heart life is simple. It beats as long as it can.
- Karl Ove Knausgård

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Ash
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Re: First morse scene in Eli's flat

Post by Ash » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:55 am

In Odenplan (book) Hakan did weaken to seek out children, although (supposedly) he had gone there to give money away. Whether or not he was looking for some form of redemption, or this was just self-deception is hard to say. He did however have an acute awareness of how morally abhorrent his behaviour was. In this regard he could be seen more as a Humbert Humbert than a Clare Quilty.

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drakkar
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Re: First morse scene in Eli's flat

Post by drakkar » Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:49 am

When Håkan was a teacher back in Karlstad, his "circle" talked about the library in Odenplan being a nice place for a pedophile getting services. But then he just talked about it, never did anything.
To me this is the most creepy with Håkan - he knows better, but is't stupid enough to do anything and get caught. No moral second thought (afair), only fear of getting caught. But now, when he is kicked out from society and the guard is down, now he gives in to his preferences an goes straight to Odenplan!
Ash wrote:He did however have an acute awareness of how morally abhorrent his behaviour was.
Yes, but he did it now and he didn't earlier in his life. Lack of experience, Perhaps....
For the heart life is simple. It beats as long as it can.
- Karl Ove Knausgård

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crazychristina
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Re: First morse scene in Eli's flat

Post by crazychristina » Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:47 pm

Hakan was having some problem dealing with the fact that he'd just killed someone. Not only did he need to find some 'salvation' by saving a life with money, but what moral fortitude he might have had in the past was diminished both by the enormity of what he'd done and also by the fact that having commited murder a bit of paedophilia was nothing. He was stressed.

I think in the end he didn't go through with it because when confronted by the boy he could appreciate how abusive it was.

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