Hakan - love him or hate him?

[lombano]

Hakan Milquetoast, wage slave, didn't slam the apartment door or quit the apartment building in such clear huff. Was it a conscripted Mr. Bean of serial murderers who dared ask Eli not see her boyfriend a few nights later?

But a now-starving Eli was in a much weaker position, and even then Hakan asks for a favour, that is, a request that still leaves Eli more or less ultimately in charge.

I saw no rancor, no accusation and no joy in the act she was about to commit.

Me neither.

the rest of what I mention here could also just be explained by Eli being a common "home and gardens variety" thoughtless, spoilt brat.

But it doesn't explain why Hakan does not, for example, ask her to hold the door when they're moving in. An equal would have requested her help, esp. as she was the stronger of the two. He never protests at her imperiousness, either.

[sauvin]

Hakan Milquetoast, wage slave, didn't slam the apartment door or quit the apartment building in such clear huff. Was it a conscripted Mr. Bean of serial murderers who dared ask Eli not see her boyfriend a few nights later?

But a now-starving Eli was in a much weaker position, and even then Hakan asks for a favour, that is, a request that still leaves Eli more or less ultimately in charge.

I saw no rancor, no accusation and no joy in the act she was about to commit.

Me neither.

the rest of what I mention here could also just be explained by Eli being a common "home and gardens variety" thoughtless, spoilt brat.

But it doesn't explain why Hakan does not, for example, ask her to hold the door when they're moving in. An equal would have requested her help, esp. as she was the stronger of the two. He never protests at her imperiousness, either.

OK, so she's a thoughtless, spoilt brat with fangs, claws and imperious temper.

Just how weak is she, really? As far as I'm aware, Jocke was her first meal since arriving in Blackeberg, and she sure seemed to dispatch him handily enough. It takes quite a bit of strength to turn a man's head around 180 degrees. This, too, is a question we ask ourselves but never really succeed in answering convincingly.

All I'm really saying here is that my general impression agrees, that Eli very definitely wears the pants in that family, but this doesn't preclude her having feelings of some sort for him. She may simply be unable to convey it, just as she's stiff and awkward with Oskar before he starts succeeding in showing her what humanity really is, showing her that more has survived than she realised.

[lombano]

OK, so she's a thoughtless, spoilt brat with fangs, claws and imperious temper.

But if Hakan feared for his safety, then surely he could hardly have felt she had feelings for him. I mean, if you're going to get torn limb to limb just for asking her to hold the door... A servant might not be in a position to ask for help at all, though.

Just how weak is she, really? As far as I'm aware, Jocke was her first meal since arriving in Blackeberg, and she sure seemed to dispatch him handily enough. It takes quite a bit of strength to turn a man's head around 180 degrees.

Yes, but she only did that after she'd fed.

[sauvin]

OK, so she's a thoughtless, spoilt brat with fangs, claws and imperious temper.

But if Hakan feared for his safety, then surely he could hardly have felt she had feelings for him. I mean, if you're going to get torn limb to limb just for asking her to hold the door... A servant might not be in a position to ask for help at all, though.

Does she have feelings for him? We don't know. One possible reason we don't know is that she doesn't know herself. Not exactly a bubbly, giddy, giggly, touchie-feelie kind of preteen girl is our Eli, is she? In fact, Lina's wooden portrayal of her may not be Lina's acting ability - it may be Alfredson telling her to be so quiet and lifeless, so tightly controlled. If she doesn't know herself, would Hakan? Actually, could Hakan? He's not a shining exemplar of mental/emotional health. Maybe she does, and he just can't forget what she is.

An even worse possibility comes to mind just now.

We've supposed Eli may have had to contend with a long series of paedophiles and other human detritus over the centuries, and it's impacted her self-worth. I've argued it's perfectly possible she won't necessarily see she has the upper hand because she's had to listen to too much manipulative garbage - just ask any victim of any kind of long term emotional abuse. I've argued that Oskar's love for her left her hopelessly confused and unbelieving, at least for a short while after she realised the possibility, and the present fanfic base seems to agree with my argument that the true realisation and full acceptance of that love is a process that takes time, lots and LOTS of time, and even greater measures of patience.

Suppose Hakan is in a similar place emotionally? Suppose he simply cannot countenance the idea that anybody could like him for any reason other than what would be strictly explained by his usefulness? We, the Infected, have gleefully heaped all kinds of abuse on Hakan because of his particular brand of monstrosity, haven't we? Would not a real-life Hakan suffer similar abuse (and worse) over the years if he's known as a monster, and particularly if he himself recognises his illness makes of him?

Hakan, too, is a vampire, and has lived in isolation, at least for a time. Would he recognise affection or genuine regard if it were accorded him?

[deleted], I've run into yet another niggling little thing for my mind to get stuck on...

Just how weak is she, really? As far as I'm aware, Jocke was her first meal since arriving in Blackeberg, and she sure seemed to dispatch him handily enough. It takes quite a bit of strength to turn a man's head around 180 degrees.

Yes, but she only did that after she'd fed.

Yes, but just how weak was she before she fed? Her appearing to be an injured little girl in the underpass, was this outward weakness real, or was it just feigned as a hunting tactic? How much of her "weakness" is just in not wanting to do her own hunting, for whatever reason?

Edit: 5 Novembre 2011, replaced a "bad word" with [deleted] to comply with renewed restrictions on language.

[Aurora]

When I think of the hours and hours of typing that have been spent on the whole Eli/Hakan thing, I've finally concluded that no one's ever going to get to the bottom of Eli's relationship with Hakan. It's too damn unique, topsy-turvy and just plain weird as hell.

A distortion (one hopes) of "normal" human relationships. We don't really care about Hakan and Eli's relationship, such as it might be, because there isn't one man Jack among us who won't instantly identify either as being a character in a work of fiction.

"We have met the enemy and he is us" - Pogo.

I have to agree with sauvin here, my usual atitude towards "weird and creepy" people isn't that they should be killed off. However in the case of the film I really didn't want to see Eli leaving Blackeberg with Hakan. I was happy that she left with Oskar and that what happens next is unknown, not counting FF of course

I honestly never for a second thought that the relationship between Eli and Hakan had been one between equals or that she had ever had any affection towards him. While I didn't assume that he was a pedophile, there isn't anything to indicate that in the film, it just seemed very wrong to me, shrugs.

[thestich]

In Wolfchild's "A tale told by hands" she has some insight about the interaction between Eli and Hakan.

I do not think I have any more to say on this but that Sauvin has AGAIN made me rethink my preconceptions.

[Wolfchild]

Hakan Milquetoast, wage slave, didn't slam the apartment door or quit the apartment building in such clear huff. Was it a conscripted Mr. Bean of serial murderers who dared ask Eli not see her boyfriend a few nights later?

But a now-starving Eli was in a much weaker position, and even then Hakan asks for a favour, that is, a request that still leaves Eli more or less ultimately in charge.

I have argued that Tomas and JAL intended for us to see a bargain being struck between Håkan and Eli in this scene. Håkan makes his "request" while he is preparing to go out and get blood for Eli. It seems fairly obvious that it is a quid pro quo. Or put more bluntly, Håkan is attempting to coerce Eli by subtly threatening to withhold food from her. Eli chooses to acquiesce because her distaste for killing still outweighs her affection for Oskar.

Just how weak is she, really? As far as I'm aware, Jocke was her first meal since arriving in Blackeberg, and she sure seemed to dispatch him handily enough. It takes quite a bit of strength to turn a man's head around 180 degrees.

Yes, but she only did that after she'd fed.

If you listen closely, during the attack you can hear Jocke's ribs cracking form the force of Eli squeezing them with her legs. I wouldn't have realized what it was, except that I had seen Tomas mention in a interview how all of the sounds - like bones cracking - were made from real, organic recordings. I started wondering where in the film you would here bones cracking, and it was during Jocke's demise that I believe I heard them. Jocke was a big boy. Can you imagine how much strength it would take to crack his ribs with legs the size of Eli's (which are not quite long enough to do it the easy way - by wrapping them all the way around and interlocking the ankles)?

This is the film that we are talking about - not the novel. There is no mention of sleeping of months at a time a waking up small and weak. I believe that Tomas intended to show a strong and fully functional Eli attacking Jocke. He wanted to make her sympathetic by showing that while she was fully capable of killing, she put up with Håkan because she wanted to avoid killing whenever she could. For a while she was even willing to submit to Håkan's jealousy and forego interaction with that she obviously yearned for in order to avoid killing.

I believe that it was important for Tomas' storytelling that the film show that this was Eli's choice. If he had portrayed Eli as too weak to really hunt on her own, it would have undermined our sympathy for her.

[Wolfchild]

I've often thought of Eli as wearing the pants in that "family", and you cite one reason I say this. Another is that Hakan's obvious terror while Eli rants angrily about his having failed to bring home the, erm, bacon. He has, in fact, never in the movie succeeded in helping her with anything that I can be sure about; worse, he's tried to obstruct her developing relationship with Oskar ("Could you do me a favour? Could you not see that... boy... tonight?").

Umm... I just wanted to point out that the film does imply that Håkan has been successful in the past. When he is cleaning his murder kit, the rinse water comes out pinkish. Also, you can see that the inside of the carrying case has blood stains. I suppose you could argue that he inherited the kit from a previous helper, but you'd be arguing against Occam.

[lombano]

I have argued that Tomas and JAL intended for us to see a bargain being struck between Håkan and Eli in this scene. Håkan makes his "request" while he is preparing to go out and get blood for Eli. It seems fairly obvious that it is a quid pro quo. Or put more bluntly, Håkan is attempting to coerce Eli by subtly threatening to withhold food from her. Eli chooses to acquiesce because her distaste for killing still outweighs her affection for Oskar.

All true, but it was still theoretically in Eli's power to accept or reject this bargain. Hakan is still acting as a supplicant at some level.

If you listen closely, during the attack you can hear Jocke's ribs cracking form the force of Eli squeezing them with her legs...

Good point.

[drakkar]

I have argued that Tomas and JAL intended for us to see a bargain being struck between Håkan and Eli in this scene. Håkan makes his "request" while he is preparing to go out and get blood for Eli. It seems fairly obvious that it is a quid pro quo. Or put more bluntly, Håkan is attempting to coerce Eli by subtly threatening to withhold food from her. Eli chooses to acquiesce because her distaste for killing still outweighs her affection for Oskar.

IMO the best approach is along these lines, viewing Eli as the child he partly is. I like the interpretation where Eli thinks he "loves" Håkan, just because he doesn't know of anything better. In a paedophile he finds the sufficient caring person still being willing to help him out, and settled with that. The costs are "acceptable", even if Eli is fully aware of things not being perfect - as he tells Oskar about how he needs help from adults after hibernating. Eli's view of friendship and love in the beginning of the story is an important base for the growing relationship between Eli and Oskar - how Eli very slowly and carefully approaches Oskar throughout the story.