Was it love?

For discussion of John Ajvide Lindqvist's novel Lilla Stjärna
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EEA
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Re: Was it love?

Post by EEA » Sun Feb 03, 2013 8:00 pm

Well I did see both girls feeling some type of love for each other and I did feel some sympathy, if not I wouldn't have finish the book.
I think both prove their love to each other, first Teresa when she kills Johannes and later Theres at the end when she holds hands with Teresa.
It reminds me of a book that I read a few years ago in which the young girl in the story finally shows the young man that she loves him by extending her hand to him and touching his hand when she receives what he has made for her. That was a big deal since she had never done that before.
In another book that I read the bad guy had no remorse and he killed because he felt like it and I found that disgusting, and with Theres and Teresa at least there is a reason for the things that they do.

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Re: Was it love?

Post by lombano » Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:02 am

EEA wrote: I think both prove their love to each other, first Teresa when she kills Johannes and later Theres at the end when she holds hands with Teresa.
I don't think Teresa killed Johannes for Theres's sake. Theres didn't ask her to, there was no direct benefit to her, and as far as we know Theres doesn't even know about it.
Nightrider wrote:..and since the novel is obviously a cautionary tale of dangers of idolatry I see Teresa and the other girls as nothing more than followers blinded by insane devotion. Ultimate groupies...They are there for Theres.....and nothing else. There is no love, only opportunity.
It is about the dangers of idolatry, but it doesn't follow that the idol must be purely evil and manipulative - which doesn't mean I think Theres is good, but that I don't see her as a pure manipulator, and I see her as less evil than Teresa.
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Re: Was it love?

Post by Nightrider » Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:35 am

lombano wrote: ....which doesn't mean I think Theres is good, but that I don't see her as a pure manipulator, and I see her as less evil than Teresa.
Teresa does not start out truly evil, far from it...She just gets in with the wrong crowd. ;) Her life ends as soon as she learns of Theres' existence. After that, it's all downhill. I still would like to stick with my impression of Theres as calculating, misanthropic creature. Her inclination to destroy and apparent lack of empathy makes her incapable of real emotions. She is a villain...In fact she is the worst kind of villain. She offers her followers a home, a way to belong when in reality they are casualties of dangerous and deceptive mind. It's cult leadership 101. When I read LS I think of Manson, Jones, Koresh...all expert manipulators, all offering an escape to their followers and all ultimately making their disciples pay the ultimate price.
Little Star is the most stark and nihilistic of JAL's novels....and if written properly(which I think it is) it doesn't have to be a bad thing....
It's a great thing! :)
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Re: Was it love?

Post by lombano » Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:31 am

I don't disagree much with how you characterise Theres, except that I think there's more to her than that. Misanthropic and destructive she certainly is, but I think there's more to her motivations than that. Theres's interest in helping Little People stand up against the Big People seems genuine, and predates the formation of the Wolves of Skansen or even meeting Teresa.
However, I disagree about Teresa - she fell in with the wrong crowd because she chose to do so, and then she went further than anything "required" of her. Theres herself and, as far as we know, the other girls, only killed either complete strangers or people who could be argued were a threat and/or had wronged them, which is less evil than the killing of Johannes. It's also hard to blame "the wrong crowd" when she was the second-in-command rather than just any follower.
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Re: Was it love?

Post by Nightrider » Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:05 am

Well, I was being a bit sarcastic when I said "wrong crowd" :) ...and yes, Teresa made her own decisions and went above and beyond of what was asked of her. This still makes her a very dangerous person who is possibly psychotic, clearly deeply disturbed, but there was never any doubt that everything she did was done by her own choice.
I'm a bit skeptical about the whole "Little People/Big People" explanation.
When Theres was found in the woods she was just an infant..."few days or few weeks old" as described in the book. I find it hard to believe
that she came up with "Little People/Big People" theory while under Leila and Lennart's care. She certainly couldn't have base it on her experiences before being found in the woods. She was way too young....Unless her brain was "programmed" that way by someone or something from birth before being discovered by Lennart? But then we would be referring to Theres as a totally different creature...Supernatural? Half human? A child cucuy?
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Re: Was it love?

Post by gattoparde59 » Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:54 am

Nightrider wrote: I find it hard to believe
that she came up with "Little People/Big People" theory while under Leila and Lennart's care.
Well actually she did, or Lennart did to be precise. Lennart explained to Theres that the world outside the house was filled with "Big People" who wanted to eat her up (the concept of murder being a bit too much for a small child to comprehend). From that point on Theres became fearful of the "big people," and began to tote tools around just in case she had to defend herself.

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Re: Was it love?

Post by Nightrider » Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:04 am

gattoparde59 wrote:
Nightrider wrote: I find it hard to believe
that she came up with "Little People/Big People" theory while under Leila and Lennart's care.
Well actually she did, or Lennart did to be precise.
DUH!!! I know, I know.... I didn't think how that would sound. :lol:
I meant that it seemed hardly something that she would take up as a philosophy/battle cry to mold her entire post Lennart life ....but I guess we are products of our environment.
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Re: Was it love?

Post by gattoparde59 » Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:38 am

Nightrider wrote:DUH!!! I know, I know.... I didn't think how that would sound. :lol:
I meant that it seemed hardly something that she would take up as a philosophy/battle cry to mold her entire post Lennart life ....but I guess we are products of our environment.
It makes sense to me: the prey turns the tables on the predator. It is a child's view of the world writ large. Look what happens to Max Hansen, the sexual predator. The end result is pure, blind, aggression, but that is the thinking behind it.

I see a lot of this in Let the Right One In too.

As for the original question here, my feeling is the young Theres is searching for something and that something is companionship and love. She begins by looking through boxes, cabinets (and other containers :shock: ) and then finds it with Jerry and then with the Internet. Her music is part of that I think. Creative expression, idolatry, these are all different facets of that search for love no matter how horrible the final result might be.

I'll break open the story and tell you what is there. Then, like the others that have fallen out onto the sand, I will finish with it, and the wind will take it away.

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Re: Was it love?

Post by lombano » Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:25 am

Nightrider wrote: I meant that it seemed hardly something that she would take up as a philosophy/battle cry to mold her entire post Lennart life ....but I guess we are products of our environment.
Well, unlike normal kids she wouldn't really have anything to dilute the influence of Leila and Lennart - normal kids have, crucially, peers, and also popular culture, other adults (teachers, relatives, etc), etc. Apart from them the only influence Theres had was Jerry, who subscribes to a more moderate version of "Big People eat Little People." Theres didn't really have anything to counteract or dilute Lennart's stories. Besides, appealing to the very primeval fear of being eaten seems to very effective with children - it can't be a coincidence that stories about children being eaten exist in pretty different cultures.

gattoparde59 wrote: It makes sense to me: the prey turns the tables on the predator. It is a child's view of the world writ large. Look what happens to Max Hansen, the sexual predator. The end result is pure, blind, aggression, but that is the thinking behind it.

I see a lot of this in Let the Right One In too.
A child or teenager destroying an adult is a recurring theme in JAL's work. Maybe there's an element of a child's darkest fantasy in it - children are routinely mandhandled, told what to do, etc. It does not seem illogical that they would want power, and the ability to physically overcome adults - the darkest version being the ability to physically destroy adults, perhaps the reason why stories about children both evil and powerful can be effective at scaring adults. Theres has been more narrowly confined, more thoroughly controlled, and less loved, than most children.
I think I mentioned here a little girl I played with once - at one point I was sitting on the couch and she grabbed my arm and pulled, because she wanted to carry me - I'm sure she didn't want to hurt me but she was obviously frustrated by her inability to manhandle me.
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Re: Was it love?

Post by Opeth » Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:51 am

I think in a twisted sense, yeah it was love... I don't think it was romantic love on Theres' part but I think that it was some sort of love, the hand holding was definitely significant. Maybe it could have even developed romantically, perhaps it was Theres' way of showing she wanted to take things further or maybe it was just her wanting comfort, I don't know, I really can't say with Theres. I will really have to read Little Star again, in fact I want to right now. I feel that John really did a brilliant job of digging into a teenager's mind.

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