A Gift

A forum for discussing fan fiction related to Let The Right One In
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sauvin
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Re: A Gift

Post by sauvin » Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:20 pm

I think a predator won't be very successful (or long-lived) if he doesn't know his prey.
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dongregg
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Re: A Gift

Post by dongregg » Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:55 pm

metoo wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:16 pm
Yes, not knowing about these things would be dangerous. However, O&E need not necessarily be completely unaware of technology. I have this idea that Oskar would read newspapers, primarily to learn about any signs that he and Eli might have been discovered. He would have started this habit the very first day when he was on the run, and he would have continued thereafter. This might keep him reasonably up-to-date regarding the technical aspects of cell phone cameras etc, so he might be aware of the dangers technology pose to him and Eli. Still, that would not necessarily make him understand what it really means to be continuously connected to one’s friends and foes, like kids are these days through their smart phones.

Here's what intrige wrote when I joined in 2013. Hopefullly followed by mackousco's image of Eli browsing WTI. (I have it on my hard drive if this fails.)

Yeah! I like that too, most of us when coming to the forum are more like: What the heck is wrong with me, and superhappy with the notion of not being the only one. I was like that too, I said to myself that: "Then I am not crazy after all. PUUH!"
Sorry for being a bit late, maybe.. But welcome! It is actually very interesting when old souls get infected. I mean, you have had so many years, experiences and obsessions, and then you devote yourself to something still, not getting tired of it at all. At 70, using the internet properly, is something to be proud of also! Not all at the same age can do that! So with Drakkar who is youngr but older, sometimes I wonder how it happened.

So anyway, welcome to the forum! I am exited to what you will do next

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“For drama to deepen, we must see the loneliness of the monster and the cunning of the innocent.”

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metoo
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Re: A Gift

Post by metoo » Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:06 pm

sauvin wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:20 pm
I think a predator won't be very successful (or long-lived) if he doesn't know his prey.
So I gather that you incline more towards the “interestedly watching society” scenario than the recluse option.

Well, to tell the truth, I think I do, too. O&E may live outside society, but they watch it and adapt as it changes.
But from the beginning Eli was just Eli. Nothing. Anything. And he is still a mystery to me. John Ajvide Lindqvist

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dongregg
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Re: A Gift

Post by dongregg » Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:30 pm

Yes, that's about right. However, metoo, the backstory I prefer is Eli recently (a couple of years) moving into towns and recruiting helpers. And I see a transition period when she still preferred a rental place as more of a den than as a place to use as a base to explore from. Still, she's more sophisticated in the novel than in the film--such as venturing out to hunt occasionally-- but I see her as still ignorant about conversations ("I'm about twelve") and dressing against the cold to avoid attracting attention. For me, Oskar is the opportunity to learn way more about town life.

Fortunately for us fan fiction writers, there's plenty of elbow room for us to let our imagination use the Eli it wants to. "The Gift" is a great example.
“For drama to deepen, we must see the loneliness of the monster and the cunning of the innocent.”

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metoo
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Re: A Gift

Post by metoo » Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:45 am

dongregg wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:30 pm
Yes, that's about right. However, metoo, the backstory I prefer is Eli recently (a couple of years) moving into towns and recruiting helpers. And I see a transition period when she still preferred a rental place as more of a den than as a place to use as a base to explore from.
Well, given that you base your image of Eli on the film rather than the novel, I gather that we can leave the long rests and the accompanying weakness that requires helpers out of the discussion. In such a scenario Håkan might have been a convenience rather than a necessity. But really, how would Eli have managed to survive out on the countryside in modern Sweden? It is quite sparsely populated, and people living there (it is reported) generally know their neighbours. It would, I think, be hard for Eli to stay below the radar in such an environment.
dongregg wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:30 pm
Still, she's more sophisticated in the novel than in the film--such as venturing out to hunt occasionally-- but I see her as still ignorant about conversations ("I'm about twelve") and dressing against the cold to avoid attracting attention. For me, Oskar is the opportunity to learn way more about town life.
Hmm, Eli "hunts" for himself twice in the movie...
Regarding conversations, I think I agree. At least conversations with contemporary children at his own developmental age. He was fine talking with Håkan, but initially awkward in Oskar's company.

I think Eli dressed the way he did not because he didn't understand how to dress inconspicuously, but because he didn't bother. He wasn't stupid, after all. And perhaps he didn't need to bother because he generally didn't show himself to people. That said, walking into the hospital reception barefoot might seem a little careless, but maybe he just didn't have any shoes to put on just then? Two days earlier he had taken his shoes off before climbing the tree from where he attacked Virginia. And afterwards he ran away without them. Perhaps these had been his only pair, and he hadn't had the opportunity to get new ones before visiting Håkan at the hospital. Still, all of this is in the novel, the film gives no explanation to Eli's naked feet in the hospital reception.

Regarding Oskar as Eli's guide to town life: Given that I think Eli would have fond it much easier to sustain himself in cities than in rural areas, I think Eli knew a lot more about towns than Oskar. After all, Eli would have been able to see towns develop from pre-industrial tiny sizes to the million inhabitant cities of today.

A sidenote: Norrköping, the town near Eli's childhood home, was the third largest in Sweden in the 18th century, when Eli was born. Still, it only housed a mere 7500 people in 1770, according to Wikipedia (the Swedish article). Södra Sandby, where I live today, is regarded as just a village with its 6100 inhabitants...

Anyway, I see Oskar mainly as Eli's guide back into childhood, and to a much less extent a guide into modern life. The film says nothing about this, but in the novel Eli knows about taxis and how to call one using a telephone (which he presumably knows how to use). He also knows where to find something with which to set zombie-Håkan on fire. I therefore think Eli navigated quite well in modern cities also before Oskar.
dongregg wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:30 pm
Fortunately for us fan fiction writers, there's plenty of elbow room for us to let our imagination use the Eli it wants to. "The Gift" is a great example.
Yes, certainly. And thanks!
Last edited by metoo on Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
But from the beginning Eli was just Eli. Nothing. Anything. And he is still a mystery to me. John Ajvide Lindqvist

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Re: A Gift

Post by gkmoberg1 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:57 am

metoo wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:54 am
What do you think?
While Eli & Oskar gain advantages by being so young, it can at times also be a disadvantage. Children do not rent rooms, buy houses, take out loans, move large sums of money. Their doing so, or attempting to do so, is going to draw attention. In particular, a clear area where they would have difficulties would be establishing and maintaining any type of permanent residence. Having to rely upon adults along the way provides temporary respite, of sorts, as well as dangers. These factors come into play when considering what it would take for the two to remain aware of societal and technology changes.

Let's take a scenario much like that from LTODD: a picture is taken of them using a mobile phone and that picture find its way to the authorities (this is perhaps not quite as it happens in LTODD, but it is the next step). The length time (months or years) it takes Eli & Oskar to be come aware of the power contained in modern mobile phones is a risk that may not well grasp. If they do not have access to one, this risk is hard for them to realize. An iPhone (and similar) is such a small thing; they might not at all understand what it can do; that it can take and transmit photos almost without delay.

Similarly think of the increasing presence of cameras, such as at money teller machines or at petrol stations or many transportation stations. These items are quietly taking photos. Some are on demand (there is somebody at the machine conducting a transaction) and some are constantly on (such as the video of a bus terminal). The problem for Eli & Oskar lies in first their not being aware of cameras and then second not being aware of how wide-spread small cameras have become. We see surveillance camera footage regularly on TV news shows. We are used to them. But if you are a transient, living on the margins of society on a day-to-day footing, then you have no access to TV. Newspapers will show a camera picture, true, and Oskar may read a newspaper from time to time. But in our increasingly online digital world, we already know 24hr reporting far outpaces the news print, especially for reporting captured images.

If they remain at the fringes of urban environments, they might remain relatively safe. Inner cities with their increasingly monitored systems (I am thinking of London and parts of NYC, but over time this will become more common in other cities) are a problem for the two. The danger, however, is they remain unaware of the changes going on and how they could become ensnared them before they know what is happening. For example, the tracking of a mobile phone's location is going to bring people and authorities to a location far faster and far more accurately than previously. Eli or Oskar's innocently carrying off an mobile phone because it looks cool leads to the situation of their being discovered because people are going to come to it as a result of its acting as a location beacon.

An alternative, as I alluded to, is having a steady environment where they have regular access to current things (computers, phones, etc.) and thus become aware of them and what they mean. Being able to have, hold and use a computer or a complex mobile phone would surely bring with it an understanding for them about what such devices can do. They would learn, thereby, what to expect and how to react and what to avoid. Yet this requires being able to have the luxury of a steady place for them to build this understanding. And this where their youth is a disadvantage.

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Re: A Gift

Post by dongregg » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:25 am

*metoo* & *GK*

Nice work!
“For drama to deepen, we must see the loneliness of the monster and the cunning of the innocent.”

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Re: A Gift

Post by metoo » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:26 am

Children indeed don't rent rooms, buy houses, take out loans, etc, but would O&E need to do these things? I think they wouldn't. Especially having permanent residences would be out of the question, I think. Their very nature would require them to continuously be on the move in order to distribute their graces thinly. I therefore think they wouldn't need adults at all. Apart from as a source of nutrition, that is...

Regarding their picture finding its way to the authorities, I think this would be a problem only if those pictures show them doing something suspicious - like attacking a person. Just being captured by cameras wouldn't necessarily be a problem. Nobody would take notice anyway. However, using surveillance recordings the police might track a victim's moves backwards in time, and if they in several cases observe the same two kids following a victim, that might pose a real threat to O&E. They would have to know the existence of this potential danger in order to avoid it.

The real problem with the ubiquitous personal cameras, I think, isn't that they are so common, but that the pictures so quickly are spread world-wide. It virtually takes only seconds. Consider the scenario in this fan fiction of mine, and add the guy shooting a video, publishing it on some social forum and the clip then becoming viral.

Regarding awareness of technology, I think access to the actual things isn't necessary. Sufficient information about new developments is readily accessible in newspapers and magazines. I envision Oskar in particular reading newspapers regularly and carefully. The very first time on the run, the events in Blackeberg including his disappearance would have been top news. I think Oskar would have wanted to keep up-to-date, and that he would have read all newspapers he could get his hands on very carefully. Perhaps this would become a habit that he would continue even after he and Eli left Sweden. If so, he would have the occasional article about surveillance cameras, computers, the Internet, social media, and so forth right under his nose. But the crucial problem is whether he would read those. Why would he bother?

If Oskar had been modelled on me, he would have bothered. I have always been interested in technology, and would read all about it as a kid. What about you?
But from the beginning Eli was just Eli. Nothing. Anything. And he is still a mystery to me. John Ajvide Lindqvist

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metoo
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Re: A Gift

Post by metoo » Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:37 pm

I happened to come across a few lines of the novel that highlights Eli's ways of dressing.

Eli has just got his invitation to enter the cancer woman's home:
Eli gick in i hallen, tog av sig skorna och jackan, lyfte telefonluren.
Eli entered the hallway, took off his shoes and jacket, lifted the telephone receiver.

Note that Eli is appropriately clothed here.

This happened October 30, that is after Eli had spent a week with Oskar (they first met October 22). Does this say that he had learnt to dress from Oskar's example? Perhaps, but I don't think so. On all instances where his clothing is mentioned before this, he had remarkably little on - initially the pink sweater, later the black sweatshirt. But all of these times he was just meeting Oskar. This one he was planning to get inside this woman's home, and therefore dressed appropriately. Maybe.
But from the beginning Eli was just Eli. Nothing. Anything. And he is still a mystery to me. John Ajvide Lindqvist

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Re: A Gift

Post by Pissball » Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:51 am

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