Set Me as a Seal Part 7

Postby dongregg » Sun Oct 30, 2016 12:17 am

Discussion area for Set Me as a Seal upon Your Heart Part 7

The kids are out of the car in an instant and enter the narrow street at a dead run. They see one of the men punch the tourist again, knocking him to the ground. The muggers have only a second to notice two children racing toward them. The kids reach them before it occurs to the men that nobody can run that fast.

Link to part 7 http://let-the-right-one-in.com/fancontent/ff/set-me-seal-upon-your-heart-part-7
Last edited by dongregg on Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:47 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Set Me as a Seal Part 7

Postby ltroifanatic » Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:59 pm

Another beautiful part to a beautiful story.So lovely to see all the characters (especially Eli) growing and enriching each other's lives.What a wonderful family you've conjured up for us.Thanks so much for your hard work.
Please Oskar.Be me for a little while.
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Re: Set Me as a Seal Part 7

Postby dongregg » Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:28 pm

[Mea culpa :P copied from a thread in Off Topic. Part of a really good post by PeteMork, and my response.]

LTROI is a beautiful tale. It is indeed my favorite love story -- but IMO it would be a very dark, conflicted reality. I'm not so sure Sauvin's dark tale isn't much closer to what might happen, even to an ageless Oskar, in the real world.

All my efforts at FF had but one goal in mind: To free the children from the curse that isolated them from humanity and ultimately each other, and give them a happy, eternal life together, complete with a family, friends, and even a dog. :D

But, ironically, I caught a bit of flack from some of the infected who felt it was against some sort of literary code of 'propriety' to relieve them of the curse they bore. Go figure. :roll:

There is no way they can continue to get their blood supply by murdering people. The modern world is not vampire friendly, especially for a couple of kids.

I know how it will play out, but it can't be before part 10. As you must have found in The Eli Chronicles, a story has to develop. Although the writer may have the intention for a specific outcome to emerge, the story has to offer opportunities for that to happen. This takes nothing away from the splendid fan fics wherein Eli, or Eli and Oskar, are vampires and accept it or at least deal with it. But in a novel-length story, I believe it is necessary to deal with it in a way that stops the slaughter.

As a post just above yours points out, killing someone changes the killer, no matter what. Not saying the kids aren't darkened by that. It's a dark tale, but so is Snow White and a bunch of even darker fairytales that come out okay in the end.

Oh, and about flak -- I feel like a ball turret gunner on a B-17 aircrew in 1944. For each person who likes the story so far, there's another who doesn't like how Oskar and Eli are characterized, or doesn't like that it's based on the film, not the novel, and so on. But it's just a post-LTROI film playing in my head, and I'm running after the kids and writing it down as best I can (with a ton of help from my friends).

:)
"For hjertet er livet enkelt: Det slår så længe det kan." - Karl Ove Knausgård
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Re: Set Me as a Seal Part 7

Postby metoo » Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:48 pm

dongregg wrote:There is no way they can continue to get their blood supply by murdering people. The modern world is not vampire friendly, especially for a couple of kids.

So, some less modern world would be more vampire friendly? One such as the Swedish early 1980s, perhaps?

Nah, that one is already such a strech of what is actually credible that continuing the bloodthirst into the third millennium wouldn't be much worse. I think. I also think that making O&E continue as vampires is much more interesting than "saving" them. Can we still like them when we know what they do? Can we make it credible that they remain essentially happy together, even when their lives must be dominated by that curse?

This is the story I would like to write. But you should write the one you want to tell, dongregg!
But from the beginning Eli was just Eli. Nothing. Anything. And he is still a mystery to me. John Ajvide Lindqvist
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Re: Set Me as a Seal Part 7

Postby PeteMork » Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:54 am

metoo wrote:
dongregg wrote:There is no way they can continue to get their blood supply by murdering people. The modern world is not vampire friendly, especially for a couple of kids.

So, some less modern world would be more vampire friendly? One such as the Swedish early 1980s, perhaps?

Nah, that one is already such a strech of what is actually credible that continuing the bloodthirst into the third millennium wouldn't be much worse. I think. I also think that making O&E continue as vampires is much more interesting than "saving" them. Can we still like them when we know what they do? Can we make it credible that they remain essentially happy together, even when their lives must be dominated by that curse?

This is the story I would like to write. But you should write the one you want to tell, dongregg!


Now, that story would be a real challenge to write, I think. It could on one hand be a deep, philosophical study of the damage done by serial murder, and the repair done by their love for each other. On the other hand, it might be a sort of action-adventure tale in which the reader develops a sort of love-hate relationship with the lovers, hoping they get caught, but secretly hoping they don't...

I think Don is well on his way toward writing a version of the second of these two possibilities.

So far. ;)
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Re: Set Me as a Seal Part 7

Postby Ketnar » Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:07 am

Greetings!

First of all, forgive my english as it´s not my first language even my second. I´m David from Canary Islands (Spain). A month ago i watched Let Me In for the first time. I loved so much that i felt the need to know the swedish version because i had many pending questions. Unfortunately LTROI is very similar to LMI so i still had that pending questions. Finally i read the book that solved some questions but not all. I still needed to know what happened after the children ran away from Blackeberg.

I´ve found this web by chance and i read all the parts very quickly. Now i´d like to comment my overall thoughts about it. I know this thread is only for part 7, so excuse me again please. Here we go:

1) To "dongregg" --> THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU. I really enjoyed your work here, much appreciated!

2) This is a love story but it has many stuff related to psychology. I´m psychologist (it seems that dongregg too) and i´ve been thinking A LOT about such things as, demeanors, natures and personalities as well.

3) Characters

Eli -->For me, Eli is a girl in any way. I know that she was born as a boy. She behaves, feels and thinks as a girl. In Set me as a seal upon your heart, Eli looks insecure and naive. We are talking about a 12 years old vampire who has been surviving for more than 200 years. For sure She has had to learn many painful lessons to stay alive so, in my humble opinion she should be much more suspicious and manipulative. Notice that she is 12 years old, so everybody see her as a child. It´s really more difficult to survive being a vampire as a child. That´s why she needs grownups to help her.

Her relationship with oskar is a bit weird because i´ve got the impression that Oskar has the control of the situation rather than her that is a being with more than 200 years experience. For Eli, this is a love story, she is in love with oskar. She seems to want to be his girlfriend with so many, kisses, hugs and other acts of afection.

Oskar --> awesome changes for oskar. He is so sure of himself that I find it hard to believe sometimes. Remember that is a 14 years mental age boy that has to kill to survive. It´s not easy to handle this situation because he is still a "good boy" and being a vampire didnt change that issue.

His relationship with Eli seems to be only for real friendship (remember Ingrid).Maybe he still thinks that Eli is a boy despite the affection she shows him.

Mr Ávila --> i really like him. I remember the book when he used to ask oskar to have a talk if he needed. He is very smart and he knows how to handle the children perfectly.

Proffesor Grigore --> I dont trust him. There´s something about him that i dont like. I think he has his own reasons to help them. Lets see in the next parts.

4) Final comments

a) I´d like to see a bit more the dark side of being a vampire. They both live off blood, they both kill people, and sometimes they cant control their inner beast.

b) I´d like to know more about their thoughts. Right now i´m NOT SURE about the oskar´s feelings towards to Eli. For example, if you were Mr Ávila and you live with a 200+ years old vampire would not you have thousands of questions to make?. Same for Oskar. I mean i would like to know a bit more about the Eli´s background.

c) "Set me as a seal upon your heart" --> i´m not sure about the meaning. Are we talking about sealing a very strong bond?

That´s all folks. Thanks for reading and excuse this "wall of text".

David

PS --> dongregg, if you have any questions about Spain for Mr. Ávilas´s background be free to pm me. Thanks again and looking forward to read the next part.
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Re: Set Me as a Seal Part 7

Postby JToede » Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:44 am

Ketnar wrote:Greetings!
First of all, forgive my english as it´s not my first language even my second. I´m David from Canary Islands (Spain). A month ago i watched Let Me In for the first time. I loved so much that i felt the need to know the swedish version because i had many pending questions. Unfortunately LTROI is very similar to LMI so i still had that pending questions. Finally i read the book that solved some questions but not all. I still needed to know what happened after the children ran away from Blackeberg.

Welcome to the Infected
John Ajvide Lindqvist wrote another book called "Let The Old Dreams Die" and he does tell what happens after they left Blakeberg, but I won't spoil it for you. Many members of this forum have written their ideas and thoughts on what happened afterwards, two stories I really enjoyed are a_contemplative_life's "Once Bitten" and "Redemption from Darkness" also sauvin, intrige, and varamiglite have written a few stories that are well done and can be tear jerkers. There are many more that stories to explore I couldn't name them all without looking for hours on this site. I think the LTROI, (both the book and the movie) touches on the dark side of being a vampire, but you are right it doesn't go in depth. I hope you enjoy this forum.
Veni, Vidi, volo in domum redire.
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Re: Set Me as a Seal Part 7

Postby dongregg » Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:05 am

Dear David,

First things first. Welcome to "We, The Infected"! After watching the Swedish version (English subs) in March 2013, I stumbled around the Internet reading critical reviews of the film until I found this wonderful forum four months later.

Many (but not all) of your comments and questions have been anticipated by others.

1. I don't show much of the interior lives of the characters. (Yes, you and I are in the same profession.)

2. Eli looks insecure and naive. We are talking about a 12 years old vampire who has been surviving for more than 200 years. For sure She has had to learn many painful lessons to stay alive so, in my humble opinion she should be much more suspicious and manipulative.

3. Her relationship with oskar is a bit weird because i´ve got the impression that Oskar has the control of the situation rather than her that is a being with more than 200 years experience.

4. awesome changes for oskar. He is so sure of himself that I find it hard to believe sometimes. Remember that is a 14 years mental age boy that has to kill to survive. It´s not easy to handle this situation because he is still a "good boy" and being a vampire didnt change that issue.

5. Professor Grigore --> I dont trust him. There´s something about him that i dont like. I think he has his own reasons to help them.

6. I´d like to know more about their thoughts. Right now i´m NOT SURE about the oskar´s feelings towards to Eli. For example, if you were Mr Ávila and you live with a 200+ years old vampire would not you have thousands of questions to make?. Same for Oskar. I mean i would like to know a bit more about the Eli´s background.

Well, David, here's some background on how the story develops – starting with the prologue (When I Am with You), everything you have read has been worked over by my two mentors on the forum and by the many other readers. Thanks to everyone, I have turned my own naïve efforts to tell the story into an imperfect tale that at least holds your attention. Even though the story is posted, it continues to change as I go back and try to patch holes.

And you can be sure that I'll be doing some more patching based on your comments, so my answers to your questions are not meant as a defense of the story as it stands, just a way of sharing my thinking about the characters.

1. About the interior lives of the characters. You see, I spend a lot of time daydreaming about a vignette, and that means visualizing it as a film that kept running after LTROI ended. That I don't show a lot is, first, because I don't see into their thoughts as much as a more literary writer would, and second because I am a novice writer. I suffer from "authorial omniscience" like every rookie writer. If I know something, I think my reader should know it, too. That is not unlike a toddler who hasn't yet developed the ability to theorize what is in the mind of another person!

As to their feelings for each other, they don't know either. They are prepubescent and have never had a boyfriend or girlfriend. I see that they are in love, but they don't know what that means. I cast it rather as feeling a fierce loyalty to one another. The more overt feeling of love is something that is growing. In "Flying," the last chapter in part 6, I wrote:

"In this, the dampest season of humid southern Sweden, they have no choice but to walk home wet. Oskar hums 'Kvar i min bil,' and they nod their heads to the beat, sublimely happy and more deeply and intricately in love than their young minds can as yet comprehend."

But their behavior shows a lot that they don't really have to think about – kissing and hugging, Eli getting really jealous over Ingrid, and stuff like that.

Hence the title of the story. It's a verse from "The Song of Solomon," which many have called the most beautiful love poem ever. They have bonded fiercely and irrevocably, but they have an imperfect way of knowing what that means, and sometimes it is challenged, like Oskar deserting her in part 1 and him becoming infatuated with flirty Ingrid in part 5.

2. Part of the narrative curve of the story is how two children who will always be 12 physically can mature and grow emotionally and mentally. They won't add new brain cells. Oskar is not mentally 14 any more so than Eli is mentally 220, but they will make billions of new dendritic connections under the guidance of the adults.

3. Another aspect of the narrative curve is that I see no reason to think that Eli has lived in an urban or near-urban environment for very long. She is a master of survival in the forest – a capable predator. In town, she doesn't know to dress against the cold, doesn't know that people have birthdays, and looks like an orphan street kid. In other words, she doesn't know how to be invisible in town. Also, she was not really all that challenged in the forest – kill, avoid detection, move on.

In part 1, she vows to change that by letting Oskar be her teacher. From that point, she defers to Oskar on trivial points, like map reading, but Oskar consistently defers to Eli on survival issues – like where will they live, is it okay to team up with Magister Ávila, and so forth.

4. Yes, about Oskar…he is largely a blank slate in the film because it's all about being bullied every day. I see no dark side to him in the film, just a kid obsessed with reading about murder and mayhem and taking it out on trees to relieve his frustration. Since I didn't have much to work with, once the bullying stopped, I portray him as smart kid, a reader but not really bookish, and a kind of smart alec.

5. Professor Grigore's reasons for joining the little family are made clear in part 3, but, yes, there is also a payoff for him that is made explicit in "Family Meeting" in part 7. Ditto for Mr. Ávila in parts 2, 6, and 7.

6. As far as Mr. Ávila's lack of curiosity about Eli's background – well, John Ajvide Lindqvist wasn't all that helpful in the novel or in the film script. I think Mr. Ávila is a bit daunted by the whole idea of vampires. When he timidly asked if he could, you know, prepare garlic bread in the kitchen in part 3, Oskar teased him mercilessly about crucifixes, mirrors, and other vampire lore that isn't true. Eli told him about all she knows about herself in part 2, but I agree that just about anybody, especially Professor Grigore as a forensics expert, would want to ask about all that. Yeah, I don't have a clue about how to recast it.

Once I complete part 8 (coming soon) and part 9, then it's off to Barcelona. But Book 2 ends with [spoiler] them lost in thoughts and feelings as the car ferry slowly pulls away from the dock in Malmö. One of my pre-readers has already pointed out that it parallels the kids on the train as the film ends.

Will there be a Book 3? I've got tons of notes, but it doesn't feel like another book is firming up. I always feel that way at the end of a major part, but – who knows? – sooner or later I won't have any more films to watch in my head. But no worries. Part 9, the ending of Book 2, won't be ready for a while, and part 8 still needs a lot of work.

Thank you again, David, for your astute observations. These are great points for me to wrestle with! I'm glad you joined this great forum.
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Re: Set Me as a Seal Part 7

Postby Ketnar » Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:35 pm

Thank you both for the warm welcome!

JToede wrote:John Ajvide Lindqvist wrote another book called "Let The Old Dreams Die" and he does tell what happens after they left Blakeberg, but I won't spoil it for you


Spoil? I´ve already read that book. There´s almost nothing to spoil in that book unfortunately (got mad with JAL about this).

JToede wrote: Many members of this forum have written their ideas and thoughts on what happened afterwards, two stories I really enjoyed are a_contemplative_life's "Once Bitten" and "Redemption from Darkness" also sauvin, intrige, and varamiglite have written a few stories that are well done and can be tear jerkers


That´s cool. Now that i´m just finished to read Set me as a seal upon your heart, i can explore the rest of the site. I´m sure i´ll enjoy it. To be honest,
I preferred to continue reading Set me as a seal upon your heart rather than exploring the web.

dongregg wrote: so my answers to your questions are not meant as a defense of the story as it stands


I´m not trying to change your point of view, i just want to figure out your point of view. It´s not a matter if you are right or my point of view is more accurate. I want to show how your story made me feel and why. I´m open minded to change my point of view. I can talk about your story for hours and hours. Each reader has his own way of interpreting the situation. It´s a great thing we could share it and learn from each other. I´m pretty sure i´ve got something from proffesor Grigore´s personality, hahaha. Indeed, i feel identified with all the main characters developed in your story.

dongregg wrote:1. About the interior lives of the characters. You see, I spend a lot of time daydreaming about a vignette, and that means visualizing it as a film that kept running after LTROI ended. That I don't show a lot is, first, because I don't see into their thoughts as much as a more literary writer would, and second because I am a novice writer. I suffer from "authorial omniscience" like every rookie writer. If I know something, I think my reader should know it, too. That is not unlike a toddler who hasn't yet developed the ability to theorize what is in the mind of another person!


I know what you mean here. In my opinion, most of times you dont need to be explicit about what they both are thinking or feeling. For example, they way Eli managed the situation when Ingrid was flirting with Oskar makes me wonder many questions about it. It´s all about the way you see Eli.

dongregg wrote:2. Part of the narrative curve of the story is how two children who will always be 12 physically can mature and grow emotionally and mentally. They won't add new brain cells. Oskar is not mentally 14 any more so than Eli is mentally 220, but they will make billions of new dendritic connections under the guidance of the adults.


Agree with you here. Perhaps i should say 14 years of experience, but I´m not sure either. This is a controversial point in LTROI story. Anyway, i accept that they both will be 12 forever.

dongregg wrote:Hence the title of the story. It's a verse from "The Song of Solomon," which many have called the most beautiful love poem ever. They have bonded fiercely and irrevocably, but they have an imperfect way of knowing what that means, and sometimes it is challenged, like Oskar deserting her in part 1 and him becoming infatuated with flirty Ingrid in part 5.


I´m still feeling that Eli gives more to the relationship. I think Eli feels guilty because: 1) Oskar left his family, 2) she turned him into vampire. Eli seems to be more possesive (she admited to be a bit selfish there) and MAYBE eli could think something like:" I want to be the only girl in Oskar´s life". By the way, this is my own interpretation of your story.

dongregg wrote:3. Another aspect of the narrative curve is that I see no reason to think that Eli has lived in an urban or near-urban environment for very long. She is a master of survival in the forest – a capable predator. In town, she doesn't know to dress against the cold, doesn't know that people have birthdays, and looks like an orphan street kid. In other words, she doesn't know how to be invisible in town. Also, she was not really all that challenged in the forest – kill, avoid detection, move on.


I totally agree with you here.

dongregg wrote:4. Yes, about Oskar…he is largely a blank slate in the film because it's all about being bullied every day. I see no dark side to him in the film, just a kid obsessed with reading about murder and mayhem and taking it out on trees to relieve his frustration. Since I didn't have much to work with, once the bullying stopped, I portray him as smart kid, a reader but not really bookish, and a kind of smart alec.


Exactly! I dont see dark side to him in the film. That´s why i was wondering how could he manage the fact that he needs to kill to survive. In the film, Eli, after 200+ years killing to survive, feels sad (in the film she cried after killing the man under the bridge). I don´t see Oskar feeling very bad. Is he loosing his humanity without notice it?

dongregg wrote:5. Professor Grigore's reasons for joining the little family are made clear in part 3, but, yes, there is also a payoff for him that is made explicit in "Family Meeting" in part 7. Ditto for Mr. Ávila in parts 2, 6, and 7.
.

You made it clear for Mr. Ávila and the children but i can´t trust him at all. That´s it how i feel. I´ve got a serendipity this morning after reading your comments. This is, all the main characteres (Eli, Oskar, Mr. Ávila and Constantine) are solitary people and now they are linked in a certain way.

dongregg wrote:Will there be a Book 3?


YES PLEASE!!!!

Check this link for a very typical Catalan food:

https://www.shbarcelona.com/blog/en/pan-tumaca/

Thanks again for your hard work and your feedback. I love it.
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Re: Set Me as a Seal Part 7

Postby dongregg » Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:30 pm

David,

Thanks for the Catalan food URL. As you read, Señor Ávila usually prepares Spanish food, so it is an important part of the story.

I have just enough Spanish to read Lorca and Neruda with the help of a dictionary. Imagine my surprise when I found that Google Maps of Barcelona are in Catalan! I really need a Catalan to English translation site!

In the film, Eli, after 200+ years of killing to survive, feels sad (in the film she cried after killing the man under the bridge). I don´t see Oskar feeling very bad. Is he loosing his humanity without notice it?

I think Oskar is just now finding his humanity. He's a lump of unformed clay. He's okay for now just being too strong to be bullied and being happy to be with Eli.

I´m still feeling that Eli gives more to the relationship. I think Eli feels guilty because: 1) Oskar left his family, 2) she turned him into vampire. Eli seems to be more possesive (she admited to be a bit selfish there) and MAYBE eli could think something like:" I want to be the only girl in Oskar´s life"

Yes, Eli has so much at stake! She goes the extra mile in the relationship because having a friend after centuries of isolation is more important for her. Plus, you know, I think girls at her age have already matured more emotionally than boys.

Eli's guilt about turning Oskar is a quiet thread that I nurtured, starting early in part 2, until it blew up in "Father-Daughter Talk" at the end of part 3. Her guilt has been eating her alive until she understands that Mr. Ávila loves her unconditionally. Her unbearable guilt is why she is so competitive for Mr. Ávila's approval of her photography. And why she cried when Professor Grigore said she and Oskar had been robbed of their childhood. She thinks it means she robbed Oskar of his. Poor little thing.

I´ve got a serendipity this morning after reading your comments. This is, all the main characteres (Eli, Oskar, Mr. Ávila and Constantine) are solitary people and now they are linked in a certain way.

Yes! Thanks! I can see that. And that makes me think of what a breath of fresh air Sassa brings to the story. She is such a bright and happy extrovert.

I look forward to posting part 8. It moves the story along nicely. And thanks to suggestions from my mentors and a couple of members who are following the story closely, it begins to develop Sassa as a threat to the family secrets. And in part 9, the suggestions of friends and mentors get the police involved -- the detective from part 2. Eeeeee!
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