Set Me as a Seal Part 3

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metoo
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Re: Set Me as a Seal Part 3

Post by metoo » Mon Oct 26, 2015 6:24 am

dongregg wrote:Poor Eli. Immersion in English is going to really test her, [...]
Eli understands English in the novel. I envision him to have been abroad for long periods - perhaps in Spain as well...
dongregg wrote:What I really feel, metoo, is that you are teaching me so much about Sweden. You are one reason I didn't want the kids to leave Sweden when they left Vällingby. Sweden's the country I want to learn about. One reason I like the Malmö location is because you have Södra Sandby listed as your location on your profile.

I used to live in Lund, I moved to my present location just a couple of years ago.
dongregg wrote:Who the hell will I be able to lean on when the family moves to another country? It may have to be a country that I am at least passing familiar with.
We have German members active on this forum, and there at least used to be British ones, too. You might want to make a poll to find out.
But from the beginning Eli was just Eli. Nothing. Anything. And he is still a mystery to me. John Ajvide Lindqvist

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dongregg
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Re: Set Me as a Seal Part 3

Post by dongregg » Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:05 pm

Not so fast, metoo. I'll be leaning on you for a while. Part 4 is entirely in Malmö, and Part 5 has to at least start in Malmö.

I really don't have a sense of where they move to next. Could be Barcelona to learn Spanish. Other options: Edinburgh to polish their English, although I find the English of my ancestral country to be a sometimes difficult dialect of English. Mainly it's a spooky place that I'm familiar with. Could be Ghent, for Dutch and French, but they probably have enough languages on their plate already. After all, Eli becoming an urbanized young lady is a far distant second place to Eli and Oskar surviving. Language acquisition will help them stay under the radar, but Eli is already very good at that when push comes to shove.

I would say learning the world (geography, history, art, drama, literature...) is the main challenge for their personal growth, and Ávila will see to that, wherever they are.

A version of the old-fashioned Grand Tour could be fun. But night trains, of course. Murder on the Orient Express comes to mind. :mrgreen:
“For drama to deepen, we must see the loneliness of the monster and the cunning of the innocent.”

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metoo
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Re: Set Me as a Seal Part 3

Post by metoo » Tue Oct 27, 2015 5:06 am

dongregg wrote: After all, Eli becoming an urbanized young lady is a far distant second place to Eli and Oskar surviving.
I find your idea that Eli needs to become urbanised hard to grasp. Personally, I would think Eli would have lived most of his life in cities, the bigger the better. More people there, you see...
But from the beginning Eli was just Eli. Nothing. Anything. And he is still a mystery to me. John Ajvide Lindqvist

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dongregg
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Re: Set Me as a Seal Part 3

Post by dongregg » Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:21 pm

metoo wrote:
dongregg wrote: After all, Eli becoming an urbanized young lady is a far distant second place to Eli and Oskar surviving.
I find your idea that Eli needs to become urbanised hard to grasp. Personally, I would think Eli would have lived most of his life in cities, the bigger the better. More people there, you see...
Bear in mind that this is Eli from the film. We see her living in an apartment in Blackeberg, but she is not urbanized. The apartment might as well be a cave in the forest. She doesn't bathe, dresses indifferently, waits for Håkan to bring her blood. She doesn't know that people have birthday celebrations. Her handwriting is what she learned as a child in an earlier century. Doesn't know the games that kids play, like bulleribock. It is easier to see her as a semiferal creature of the forest than as a city dweller. For the third jungle gym encounter, she cleans up (note fingernails and "do I smell better?") but isn't ready to carry on any but the most rudimentary of discussions with Oskar. That isn't to say that she hadn't lived near cities, wherein she could have fed before returning to a hut or a cave. It also doesn't rule out that Håkan may not have been her first helper, or that she may have lived in cities with previous helpers, as long as they shielded her from many of the experiences of urban living.

A viewer of the film or a reader of "Set Me as a Seal" could explain away why she appears so out of touch with modern (therefore urban) living, but that would be taking the long way around. JAL wrote the script and TA filmed it this way. My love of the film experience drives my desire to spend time with film Eli, which is why I'm writing this story.

For some members of the forum, perhaps most, my experience of the film won't resonate. You and several others (including especially Pete and GK)have responded to comments I've made in earlier threads to let me know that the world of LTROI is a seamless whole that necessarily includes the novel. But I am content to immerse myself in the film experience. It may be a minority position, but within that position, I try to stay true to my Eli while still allowing her to grow and change beyond where she was as the end of the film. I include LTODD because it seems to me that JAL wrote it as an extension of the film more so than of the book.

And so, my good and helpful fellow forum member, I would ask you to suspend disbelief, as we are often required to do when enjoying fiction, especially when it is about imaginary worlds and creatures that don't exist beyond the pages of the story; and for my part, I will not thoughtlessly challenge the canon.
“For drama to deepen, we must see the loneliness of the monster and the cunning of the innocent.”

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metoo
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Re: Set Me as a Seal Part 3

Post by metoo » Tue Oct 27, 2015 6:17 pm

dongregg wrote:Bear in mind that this is Eli from the film. We see her living in an apartment in Blackeberg, but she is not urbanized.
It seems to me that what you are after is socialised rather than urbanised. My idea is that Eli knows very well how to survive in urban environments, but maybe not so much about how to socialise with people, especially not people of his/her own age. And, you know, also people in rural environment like to keep clean these days. But this doesn't matter much to your story. Eli still needs to learn how to behave.

However, my view has nothing to do with the novel - both it and the film are virtually silent about Eli's earlier life. Instead it's something that I have assumed as the logical consequence of the fact that people in rural environments are more aware of both neighbours and strangers, and also are less numerous, than people in cities. Therefore, Eli would have had a double incentive to stay mainly in cities, I think.
dongregg wrote:I include LTODD because it seems to me that JAL wrote it as an extension of the film more so than of the book.
I agree - and JAL has said as much, too. Håkan explicitly wasn't a former Oskar in the novel, and the reverse is also contradicted, so LtODD isn't needed to clear that issue out vis-à-vis the novel. Still, it settles the question of what would become of Oskar in the long run, which the novel had left open.
Last edited by metoo on Tue Oct 27, 2015 6:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
But from the beginning Eli was just Eli. Nothing. Anything. And he is still a mystery to me. John Ajvide Lindqvist

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Re: Set Me as a Seal Part 3

Post by dongregg » Tue Oct 27, 2015 6:24 pm

metoo wrote:
dongregg wrote:Bear in mind that this is Eli from the film. We see her living in an apartment in Blackeberg, but she is not urbanized.
It seems to me that what you are after is socialised rather than urbanised. My idea is that Eli knows very well how to survive in urban environments, but maybe not so much about how to socialise with people, especially not people of his/her own age. And, you know, also people in rural environment likes to keep clean these days. But this doesn't matter much to you story. Eli still needs to learn how to behave.

However, my view has nothing to do with the novel - both it and the film are virtually silent about Eli's earlier life. Instead it's something that I have assumed as the logical consequence of the fact that people in rural environments are more aware of both neighbours and strangers, and also are less numerous, than people in cities. Therefore, Eli would have had a double incentive to stay mainly in cities, I think.
dongregg wrote:I include LTODD because it seems to me that JAL wrote it as an extension of the film more so than of the book.
I agree - and JAL has said as much, too. Håkan explicitly wasn't a former Oskar in the novel, and the reverse is also contradicted, so LtODD isn't needed to clear that issue out vis-à-vis the novel. Still, it settles the question of what would become of Oskar in the long run, which the novel had left open.
Very clear and thoughtful response. Thanks.
“For drama to deepen, we must see the loneliness of the monster and the cunning of the innocent.”

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intrige
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Re: Set Me as a Seal Part 3

Post by intrige » Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:59 pm

The father daugher thing happening between Avila and Eli does seem kinda rushed don't you think? Well, that is at least what I think. Sorry!
Great story and all but it is a bit too sweet, too fast, too: "They are flipping amazing I met them once now I love them."

But I get it. You are writing from your poor infected heart. I used to do that once. If you take one look at Bloody Romantic you see the exact same thing, only, it is just between Oskar and Eli and: I love you!!!" is thrown everywhere. It is just too much!! :oops: :roll:

So I get it. But maybe let things take its time for the next part? So I actually kind of buy it, a little? make it a tad bit realistic?
Oh and one more thing.

SHOW DON'T TELL.
Bulleri bulleri buck, hur många horn står upp

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Re: Set Me as a Seal Part 3

Post by dongregg » Sun Dec 13, 2015 10:31 pm

intrige wrote:The father daugher thing happening between Avila and Eli does seem kinda rushed don't you think? Well, that is at least what I think. Sorry!
Great story and all but it is a bit too sweet, too fast, too: "They are flipping amazing I met them once now I love them."

But I get it. You are writing from your poor infected heart. I used to do that once. If you take one look at Bloody Romantic you see the exact same thing, only, it is just between Oskar and Eli and: I love you!!!" is thrown everywhere. It is just too much!! :oops: :roll:

So I get it. But maybe let things take its time for the next part? So I actually kind of buy it, a little? make it a tad bit realistic?
Oh and one more thing.

SHOW DON'T TELL.
Thanks, Trige!

As for the pace, I just have to go with it. Some really important parts of the story develop at a slow, deliberate pace, such as Eli's guilt over turning Oskar. We see it in part 2, it is steadily developed in part 3, and it only reaches its dramatic climax in the last vignette in part 3, right? I'm watching the story unfold before my eyes and writing it down, so things happen when they happen. There's some really creepy Steven King stuff that started in part 2 and ends up getting resolved in part 4.

Wait for it.

The key to how quickly the four of them bond is that all four are very lonely. Oskar and Eli, of course. Totally isolated until they met each other. Ávila and Grigore are two bachelors of a certain age. There's no accounting for how quickly anyone bonds, but it didn't surprise me. I would bet that more of their backstory will emerge in part 4. It's obvious to me that they are not gay, so what's the story? What happened in Spain so that Ávila doesn't like grownups (in part 2)? He likes kids, but he obviously isn't a pedo. And anyway, why are the grownups even in Sweden? I already know, but I won't know the details until I see them "on the screen," where the story is happening.

You wrote:
Great story and all but it is a bit too sweet, too fast, too: "They are flipping amazing I met them once now I love them."

But I get it. You are writing from your poor infected heart. I used to do that once. If you take one look at Bloody Romantic you see the exact same thing, only, it is just between Oskar and Eli and: I love you!!!" is thrown everywhere. It is just too much!! :oops: :roll:

I guess you'll always be bumping up against my poor infected heart. I am looking at the third anniversary of my infection coming up in March. Has anybody noticed any changes to it? It seems like no time has passed since that first viewing and today. :wub:

As far as making the story believable, that's going to have to rest with each reader. It can be as believable as you want it to be. You need to know that I believe everything in the story. Nothing is put in for "writerly effect," because I don't know how to do that. I'm just living it and writing it down. For example, there a rainstorm in part 4. It was very sunny in Atlanta while I was writing the vignette, but every time I looked out my window, I expected it to be raining! :lol:

As for show don't tell, well, I'm writing the story, so you have to live with me narrating some parts, having the characters demonstrating some parts, and my three mentors on the forum helping me keep a reasonable balance. Det bara är så!

Okay, I'm smiling because you wrote, "Great story and all..." It is a great story, but I have to use the tools I've got to tell it. With a little help from my friends. Okay, with a lot of help. :lol: And you are one of my helpers. I hope you will go back to part 2 and read what I did with Detective Sergeant Per Morkus at you and GK's recommendation. Now there are three short vignettes in part 2 featuring him. Gee, there's even a hint of romance when Agnetha shows up at the crime scene. I wonder if...actually, I know, but you will have to wait.

Okay, I hope you will keep following the story and posting your comments. :)
“For drama to deepen, we must see the loneliness of the monster and the cunning of the innocent.”

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intrige
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Re: Set Me as a Seal Part 3

Post by intrige » Mon Dec 14, 2015 8:17 am

I have read part 2 but I don't remember much else but the parts where Oskar and Eli were tigether. You know me, a lovesick fool :roll: I really liked part 1, and really liked how their relationship diveloped in part two after all that happened in part 1. And the idea of Mr Avila being there at all was neat.

OKOK I'll stop nitpicking. I am dead honest though, at least you have that!! I'll be following your story, can't promise I'll re-read part 2 though.
Bulleri bulleri buck, hur många horn står upp

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Re: Set Me as a Seal Part 3

Post by dongregg » Mon Dec 14, 2015 5:29 pm

intrige wrote:I am dead honest though, at least you have that!! I'll be following your story, can't promise I'll re-read part 2 though.
Stay honest-- I count on it! :D

You and GK will get a PM with the added ending to Part 2. Hey, you guys wanted it! There's a big nod to LTODD and Karin!
“For drama to deepen, we must see the loneliness of the monster and the cunning of the innocent.”

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