Set Me as a Seal Part 1

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dongregg
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Re: Set Me as a Seal Part 1

Post by dongregg » Tue Jun 21, 2016 2:58 pm

Enly wrote:I started reading the story. Getting interesting. At the end, the scene of Oscar and Eli turned out beautiful.
Thanks, Enly. The last scene was sweet for me, too. In part 2, Oskar and Eli are so happy to be back together, but every day they are in Blackeberg puts them in more danger. They get help from an unexpected source, and the adventure continues!
“For drama to deepen, we must see the loneliness of the monster and the cunning of the innocent.”

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Re: Set Me as a Seal Part 1

Post by Enly » Tue Jun 21, 2016 3:11 pm

dongregg wrote:
Enly wrote:I started reading the story. Getting interesting. At the end, the scene of Oscar and Eli turned out beautiful.
Thanks, Enly. The last scene was sweet for me, too. In part 2, Oskar and Eli are so happy to be back together, but every day they are in Blackeberg puts them in more danger. They get help from an unexpected source, and the adventure continues!
With pleasure I will read on :)

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dongregg
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Re: Set Me As a Seal upon Your Heart

Post by dongregg » Sat Nov 12, 2016 8:39 pm

metoo wrote:
metoo wrote:Well, metoo. I'd say just for the fun of writing it. [...] Anyway, just start writing it and see what turns up.
Why should I write your story? Why don't you write it yourself?

My objectives for writing stories about O&E has been what I call immersion exercises - a way to get into the world of LtROI when reading the novel and watching the film didn't do it anymore. But in order to write I have to believe in the plot, and getting unnecessary passports is something I don't believe O&E would do. Passports are useful for interacting with official society, but O&E would avoid that.

To tell the truth, I find it's very hard to write anything involving O&E these days, since their lives would be so uneventful and repetitive:
Arrive to a new place. Find a hideabout. Feed on some unlucky poor guy or gal once a week, roughly, and hide the corpse well enough afterwards. Play some games. Read some books. Stay well below the radar of the public and the authorities. Leave the current place for a new one before things might become too hot. Repeat ad infinitum.
Well, Metoo, Part 7 is posted. I'm sure you're surprised at all of the adventures that take place in their (so far) seven months in Malmö. Now that they have passports and other documents, I can't seem to find what is required for traveling between European countries in 1984, which is a year before the Schengen Agreement and six years before the Schengen Convention proposed a common visa policy.

Your thoughts?
“For drama to deepen, we must see the loneliness of the monster and the cunning of the innocent.”

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Re: Set Me as a Seal Part 1

Post by SpartanAltego » Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:11 am

Just finished digesting Part I. I'm impressed at the amount of research that must have gone into learning all these locations, distances, and little details that helped ground the setting in Sweden. Far harder than relocating to a more familiar setting like I did, but well worth it. After all, the setting is in its own way part of the charm of the novel, at least for me. Something would be missing if Oskar and Eli weren't out across the sea.

As far as the story content, it's good thus far. Oskar and Eli are both kids, prone to young and rash decisions. Oskar may feel he's more a thinker than Eli, but when it comes down to it he discovers he's just better at planning to make a bad decision instead of making it right away. He's lucky Eli knew him well enough to find him, or they both would have been stuck in a world of solitude again. Both of them feel young, a little foolish in some ways and bright in others (as children are), and familiar - you write them well.

Also, it was nice to see a fanfiction entry where interaction with strangers doesn't require someone to have unsavory interest in Eli or some kind of vampiric hypnosis. Sometimes it seems like writers expect Hakan-types to just lurk around every corner, and I was waiting for the moment where Eli's hitchhiking would go awry (for the other person). Glad to have been shown otherwise.

Now, on to Part II...
"The dark is patient, and it always wins. But its weakness lies in its strength: a single candle is enough to hold it at bay. Love is more than a candle. Love can ignite the stars." - Matthew Stover

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Re: Set Me as a Seal Part 1

Post by dongregg » Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:12 pm

Thanks Dante. You see exactly where I'm coming from. Over the next 11 months of the tale, the children will become more mature because of their experiences, but life will still be filtered through the limitations that being forever 12 imposes.

Anyway, I'm writing the tale because I want to hang out with them, just as I do when I'm thinking of JAL's portrayal of them. The constant challenge for me is how to let them grow without losing their essence and thereby becoming unfamiliar.

I don't always succeed. Eli often appears more childlike than she is presented in the film or novel. I probably unconsciously acknowledge that the former peasant child had some big gaps in her experience that centuries of extreme isolation did little to fill, such as never celebrating (or even knowing) her birthday.

As you read the tale, I encourage you to share your thoughts with me, especially in places where you think I have misrepresented the children.

:)
“For drama to deepen, we must see the loneliness of the monster and the cunning of the innocent.”

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Re: Set Me as a Seal Part 1

Post by dongregg » Fri Dec 29, 2017 6:19 am

SpartanAltego wrote:
Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:11 am
Also, it was nice to see a fanfiction entry where interaction with strangers doesn't require someone to have unsavory interest in Eli or some kind of vampiric hypnosis. Sometimes it seems like writers expect Hakan-types to just lurk around every corner, and I was waiting for the moment where Eli's hitchhiking would go awry (for the other person). Glad to have been shown otherwise.

Now, on to Part II...
Well, Dante, I appreciate you drawing my attention to aspects of the tale so far. About Håkan. I think bringing unsavory characters in just to make an action scene work (or a plot point would not be out of place. Oh yeah, and at least three actors...oh, but you're not there yet!

But I was saying, leaving them out just fell in place. And it's Intrige/eik who gave me the nudge to do that. I ask the forum if they thought Eli should have a long talk with Oskar about Håkan and her other helpers. Trige said that would not seem natural. Eli needs to keep quiet about some things.

I believe that and other considerations kept me slanting the story toward "young-adult fiction."

I'm glad you see the children exactly as I tried to portray them in part 1 - "Both of them feel young, a little foolish in some ways and bright in others (as children are), and familiar..."
“For drama to deepen, we must see the loneliness of the monster and the cunning of the innocent.”

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Re: Set Me as a Seal Part 1

Post by SpartanAltego » Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:02 pm

dongregg wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 6:19 am
SpartanAltego wrote:
Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:11 am
Also, it was nice to see a fanfiction entry where interaction with strangers doesn't require someone to have unsavory interest in Eli or some kind of vampiric hypnosis. Sometimes it seems like writers expect Hakan-types to just lurk around every corner, and I was waiting for the moment where Eli's hitchhiking would go awry (for the other person). Glad to have been shown otherwise.

Now, on to Part II...
Well, Dante, I appreciate you drawing my attention to aspects of the tale so far. About Håkan. I think bringing unsavory characters in just to make an action scene work (or a plot point would not be out of place. Oh yeah, and at least three actors...oh, but you're not there yet!

But I was saying, leaving them out just fell in place. And it's Intrige/eik who gave me the nudge to do that. I ask the forum if they thought Eli should have a long talk with Oskar about Håkan and her other helpers. Trige said that would not seem natural. Eli needs to keep quiet about some things.

I believe that and other considerations kept me slanting the story toward "young-adult fiction."

I'm glad you see the children exactly as I tried to portray them in part 1 - "Both of them feel young, a little foolish in some ways and bright in others (as children are), and familiar..."
Having finished Part II now, I'm not necessarily thrilled with Eli's encounter in the alley, and my feelings about this part are a little more mixed. Eli seems unusually forthcoming about his past to Avilia, Oskar's trust in him notwithstanding, and I can't quite see him being so open with a person he isn't certain of yet. Avilia himself takes the notion of vampirism and Oskar/Eli's murders of necessity with impossible calm and understanding, with very little conflict on the matter. Seems like that process could've been slowed down, at least, unless Part III reveals he does indeed call Oskar's mother (and the police) to handle the situation.

The rest of the chapter is perfectly fine, though. LtROI benefited from an engaging supporting cast and sub-plots, and police/detective stories trailing after the bloody messes left in the wake of our vampire kids is always fun. Eli's unusual earnestness aside and Avilia's strangely easy acceptance of the kids, they felt reasonably like themselves.

Also, thanks for making me laugh. "Your eyes look like two pissholes in the snow."
"The dark is patient, and it always wins. But its weakness lies in its strength: a single candle is enough to hold it at bay. Love is more than a candle. Love can ignite the stars." - Matthew Stover

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Re: Set Me as a Seal Part 1

Post by dongregg » Fri Dec 29, 2017 6:34 pm

You raise the very points that make part II weak. Ávila's easy acceptance of the kids as serial killers -- even supernatural creatures -- and the kids' readiness to tell their story to him.

Rewrite to follow soon. It will include what Ávila is going through in his mind -- his overwhelming guilt about his lack of involvement that he thinks led to Oskar's death, and his feelings that his life is over, that he will just remain a lonely recluse. (I need to put in that his only activity is ice skating alone.) I also need to develop how easy it is for a modern, educated European to accept that vampirism even exists. It's no coincidence that he is not a Swede.

The kids' openness is a tougher call, but I have some ideas about how to sell it.

Much of what you have read in part II is based on critiques such as yours. Detective Per Morkus and the clerks at the department store were not in the first version. And Per is not done with the case, as you will see in part IX.

Oh, and this is an opportunity for me to describe how Mr. Ávila looks!

I hope that you will continue your engagement with the story. I need your feedback. :)
“For drama to deepen, we must see the loneliness of the monster and the cunning of the innocent.”

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Re: Set Me as a Seal Part 1

Post by SpartanAltego » Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:49 am

Part III troubles me, in large part because it introduces another character who without any fanfare whatsoever deduces and accepts that Oskar and Eli are vampires. That he managed to do so within seconds and just so happens to be from Transylvania is...on the nose, to say the least. Moreover, his explanation of why he accepts Oskar and Eli doesn't read like a person; it reads like a forum post, right down to rhapsodizing about their innocence, loneliness, and goodness. While I buy that one could look at Oskar and Eli and differentiate between what they are and who they are, Grigor's interactions with them didn't have much to show off the kids' personalities to justify and abide them as murderers. Much less to justify the rather cringe-worthy rationale that they must be part of nature, and that because they don't enjoy killing they should be allowed to continue on taking the lives of whoever is unfortunate enough to cross their paths. There's having empathy for a pair of decent kids with an ugly burden, and then there's this fellow whose empathy for these two is so all encompassing it blots out any compassion for other people.

Avila's characterization also is an issue, because his 'voice' isn't in the dialogue or his behavior. I can't picture the Avila of the book or film and the Avila of your story being the same person. The conversations and wording make him sound more like, again, someone discussing the kids as though they were fictional characters on a forum and summarizing them. "Tortured by a sadistic vampire" isn't something a person would say when referring to a real event that happened to someone they know. They'd say something more abstract, or express deeper emotion at the least. I'd do a run through of your dialogue again to make it more natural sounding. Remember, too, that you don't need the characters to be all knowing and have perfect grasps of who Eli and Oskar are; they can make assumptions, be left in the dark, be wrong.

Your technical knowledge is, again, very impressive. I legitimately believe that your characters are operating in Sweden, that Grigor knows photography, and so on. But the characters don't feel as much like themselves as they did in the first chapter. Oskar and Eli seem to only be precocious and adorable children, and the main two adults thus far are completely sympathetic to their plight to the point of openly declaring love for them and have zero compunctions whatsoever about helping them hide bodies, remain undetected, and so on. Much too shallow.

We'll see if Part IV turns a corner. Don't feel too disheartened, though. No first draft of a work is perfect, and expecting otherwise is opening yourself up for disappointment.
"The dark is patient, and it always wins. But its weakness lies in its strength: a single candle is enough to hold it at bay. Love is more than a candle. Love can ignite the stars." - Matthew Stover

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Re: Set Me as a Seal Part 1

Post by dongregg » Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:23 am

Great work, Dante. Others have pointed out similar unlikely-hoods.

I'll go though part 3 using your insights. For the dialogue, I have a trick where I make a copy of the vignette then turn it into a "script" with no other mise-en-scène but the characters. That will flush out some concerns I have.

As for the fairytale content of Professor Grigor and Mr. Ávila's acceptance and nurturing of the kids, alas, it's over-the-top romance I'm going for. New young readers who are ready to go gaga over the characters. I need to look again at how effective I am doing it. But it all shades toward the saccharine. In the book, Mr. Ávila is a stern veteran, a WWII fighter pilot, and his students are afraid of him. Cayetano Ruiz is younger and kinder, and his character in my story goes way out with the "kinder."

Who knows--once it's available for non-LTROI readers, perhaps the portrayal will get some new followers whose hearts are ready to be enthralled by fantasy characters, as we were.

But again, only if I have the skill to bring it off, which is why your thoughts mean so much to me.

But you're also helping me go deeper into my characters, which makes me give more of their thoughts, especially Mr. Ávila's. In part 2 he has to seriously consider turning them in. He needs to confront how helping serial killers conflicts with his values, and I need to make a better case for his misanthropy and despair.

Speaking of über-likeable characters, the film kids seem younger than the book kids. Eli, for sure. The kids in my story act young, and Eli has actually regressed, I think, as she begins to blossom into her missing childhood. Hm. I think I'll have Oskar talk to her about that after Christmas. Or at least after Eli gets blown away by the roller coaster ride in Copenhagen.

I should add that Set Me As a Seal is based completely on the film and on the short story, LTODD. The stuff I throw in from fan fictions, from the book, and from ideas on the forum just add to the film world that the tale tries to recreate and extend.

I look forward to more! You're working me hard, and the story needs it! :think:
“For drama to deepen, we must see the loneliness of the monster and the cunning of the innocent.”

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