Last DVD/Movie you bought or watched?

[sauvin]

Most of the development of Oskar's character over time in my fiction has been on the presumption that he remain unturned for a variety of reasons including personal churlishness (there's no "happily ever after" for me, you see, so there can't be for anybody else). The short story that has the kids together in some other country, Oskar with the "look of a predator", is what I'm calling "post-canon" also for a variety of reasons including the fact that my unturned Oskar turned 40 before that story came out, as I recall.

I still believe my Oskar at 40 is the most probable long-term outcome, given he remain unturned. That story is something of paper-thin slice of life, and doesn't include a myriad other possible considerations that occur to me long after the fact. As an example, might not Oskar become envious and resentful, at least to a degree, of Eil's ability to sprout wings and just flutter away at the first sign of trouble, or shinny up a tree faster than Jack can fall on a candlestick, or read a novel with only the light of the stars?

As for a turned Oskar, I'm thinking that if Eli could hold it together well enough to develop a real relationship with a "real" human boy, even after such a long march through the night, might not Oskar fare at least as well if he have somebody who loves him always at his side?

Well, maybe not. I also can't help thinking that divorce rates in the US started skyrocketing not long after I was born (and I remember the announcement on a pink Philco radio that JFK had been slain), and has remained high enough that folks in the factory, when getting to know each other, have been known to ask "So... how many times have you been married?" After a few years on the run together, with nobody to talk to but each other, there's always a danger than they'll get sick of each other's company ("You never have anything new to say!") and part company.

Another thought to cross my mind are the Standford and Milgram experiments. "The experiment's results", Wikipedia tells us, "favor situational attribution of behavior over dispositional attribution (a result caused by internal characteristics). It seemed that the situation, rather than their individual personalities, caused the participants' behavior". Oskar had already exhibited some antisocial tendencies in the movie (and much more so in the novel) presumably encumbered by the need to continue co-existing with (or surviving) other people. Oskar unfettered may very well indeed be an Oskar changed into something we might not recognise, or care for. His is now the life of an apex predator, and now has little need to concern himself with other people in any practical - except to remain near enough to centres of population large enough to sustain him. He may, in other words, become morally and emotionally exactly what his new physical circumstances demand: something other than completely human.

It could be argued that my unturned Oskar is precisely that: an Oskar changed into something we don't recognise or care for, but the difference between this and a turned Oskar's transformation into a nightmare is in the fundamental nature of the ostensible liberation from the shackles ordinary folk wear unwitting. Unturned Oskar not only has to continue co-existing with (and/or surviving) hordes of ordinary folk, but has to live with the constant fear he'll be discovered and subjected to jungle justice. A turned Oskar still has to fear this, but to a much lesser degree since he could, like Eli, could do some jetting or shinnying, and could probably defend himself effectively if cornered. What's more, no matter where he goes, a turned Oskar can always find food, and doesn't have to worry about keeping his toes warm and toasty in the winter.

[dongregg]

These issues have been part of an ongoing (mostly off camera) dialogue between me and PeteMork for at least a year. I am closing in on getting the children out of Sweden and on the way to Spain as I complete Book 2 of "Set Me as a Seal Upon Your Heart." But then what? Of all the notes and sketches I have for Book 3, I'm stuck with what there is left for me to work with. Once they are integrated into Barcelona society and have a steady supply of blood diverted from collection centers, then what? Vampires who don't need to kill? The tragedy of eternal-ish life remains -- they will never have friends their age because friends grow up (and die). But I'm left with a sort of "Only Lovers Left Alive" plot, which is no plot, just a couple of campy aesthetes listening to classical music and commenting on the fine vintage of the blood delivered to them by courier.

I grieve at the thought of not being able to hang out with the kids, but that will be the case, it seems, because of all the paradoxes you and PeteMork have just covered.

So Book 2 may be it for my tale. I really want to play with them in Barcelona; and I can -- in my imagination; but I may not have anything that I can turn into a story. Not a vampire story, anyway. I've got plenty of stuff to propel a romance, but that's not what I want to write or read.

Oy veh!

[sauvin]

Must art always imitate life?

[Drakeule]

Must art always imitate life?

What is art if not life seen from one's perspective?

[dongregg]

Must art always imitate life?

What is art if not life seen from one's perspective?

These two bookend ideas have set me to looking at what I'm doing as a fan fiction writer. The only fiction I've tried to write is on this forum.

Can I say, then, that what I'm doing is art imitating art? A completely derivative exercise? That would be ironic for a huge reason -- I fell in love with the film LTROI because it feels grounded in reality. What would life be like for a 12-year-old vampire in a modern urban setting?

I imagine that these two questions -- for me difficult to answer -- strike me because I'm losing the thread. The first question suggests that, with imagination, art can create fiction that goes beyond life. But I suspect that I lack the creativity and imagination that are required. The second question exposes that my stories are not about life -- at least as I know it -- but about a story JAL wrote, which is rich with his life. The only things from my life in my stories are things I sprinkle in to amuse myself.

Are these questions so hard to answer? Or am I just tired?

[a_contemplative_life]

And there is always this, off the coast of NC

Or this...

[JToede]

And there is always this, off the coast of NC

Or this...

Okay that's it,I am moving to Wyoming, I'm sure there are no sharks there.
Also, why is one diver out of the cage?

[a_contemplative_life]

I guess either he enjoys living dangerously, or he has decided that the risk is low.

[gkmoberg1]

I would definitely stay in the cage. Even if I was in Wyoming.

[PeteMork]

I know I'm late, but I realized I never responded to this. Regarding Eli and Oskar's future, I guess it's a question about which way you want to suspend your disbelief. I've always treated LTROI as a fairy tale, complete with a "and they lived happily ever after" ending. As to why I think some (including me) are a bit resistant to "freeing them from their curse," my thoughts are that the cathartic power of LTROI comes from the contrast of Oskar and Eli's love and the darkness of their curse. Taking away that darkness would drain the work of its haunting quality and I think that having Oskar and Eli live as vampires would be "truer" to the theme of love overcoming anger and violence, but not necessarily being a panacea. Also, it may be just my way of placing Oskar and Eli on a pedestal, away from the problems of the real world.

Nothing here should take away from your great fanfiction. I want Oskar and Eli to happy too, I just don't want their future happiness to be contingent on integration into human society. If they have to be a bit monstrous to live that way happily, I guess that's fine- they can be selfish, they're children after all. I guess I just don't care about them being "innocent" all that much

My crazy completely unworkable fanfic idea is what if someone offered Oskar and Eli a magic ring-which would keep them safe as longed as they loved each other. Then I thought there'd be no tension to the plot, so the story would have to focus on what it means to be "safe" but still free. So I thought of a few rules to the magic ring, and how the rules could be manipulated to bring trouble-like if the spell protected Eli and Oskar could it be used as a weapon by manipulating someone so that they die trying to harm Eli and Oskar? Then it became about the impact of such magic on the world around them and not a Oskar and Eli story at all. Like I said, the story didn't work, but I kinda like the last "rule" I came up with: "If, for whatever reason, the magic couldn't protect both of them, the ring would protect Oskar over Eli" because the [author surrogate] loved Eli more. I thought that the idea that it may be more painful to lose someone than be hurt yourself is interesting, but I don't want to put Eli and Oskar through that.

You're right. There are so many ways to carry things forward in their lives, LTODD notwithstanding. I rather like your magic ring idea though, largely because your "last rule" would make for an interesting, original, and heartbreaking story. One I would also find almost impossible to write myself.

I also think that Sauvin's fear that they could someday fall out of love with each other is justified, considering the fact that they'll certainly live many lifetimes together and might start grating on each other nerves--another reason I loaded them up with family and friends to fall back on, just in case. I suppose they could have fallen in with a rag-tag group of other young vampires and terrorized the human race for a while, but that's a different story, yet to be written. By someone else.